[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

Ending things at a year end is much more tidy than the middle when many more people are away.

Except I feel that more people are off on Winter vacation in December But I’m not all that hung up on summer v. winter showdowns. I suspect the same volume of people will be away in December as July, so why not pull a GeoCities and shut down Oct 26th

The only real reason I can see for stopping 0.9 support is that it’s time consuming in a direction that’s no longer being followed (see _ck_’s explanation). And that’s fair, y’know

0.9 IS stable. It’s more tested than 1.0. But I agree with johnhiler, in that this doesn’t need to be a WarGames, zero-sum thing. There are always reasons to stay a couple revs back. Anyone who runs a server knows that. You want to upgrade to get new things, but you also end up holding off because it works as it, and you don’t want to mess with what works. But. There’s a point where holding off will cause you more pain when you have to upgrade.

Thankfully, we’re not there yet!

Sez Sam:

As long as bbPress 0.9 is maintained some time will have to be spent maintaining the 0.9 branch, mostly with regards to security fixes. I don’t see this as particularly burdensome, but I don’t want to be doing it forever.

12 to 18 months is long enough, IMO, for that. Pick one, carry on. A set in stone date is good so people can’t say they weren’t warned

[grassrootspa]

I agree 100% with the comments of ryanhellyer & frooyo.

Been casually following bbPress for the past year (WordPress is sooooo a Gateway drug to other Automattic projects) but the impending release of 1.0 and the various RCs pushed me to finally jump in and start really fooling around with the software. Couldn’t be happier. God bless bbPress pioneers like _ck_, Sam, and everyone else for the plethora of killer plugins and themes.

Totally understand where people are coming from re: 1.0’s stability compared to 0.9 but it would be much more productive for attention to be focused on 1.0 instead of 0.9. After all, folks using/testing/tweaking 1.0 is how all the bugs, plugin compatibility, and various stability issues will be worked out!

Exciting times are ahead for bbPress and 1.0 is the future. The more focus on 1.0 the better in the grand scheme of things. I’m going to get razzed but 6 months doesn’t seem unreasonable (or even 3 months), especially since everyone has known for quite some time that 1.0 was going to be coming out. Let’s embrace the future: 1.0!

[oakad]

It’s not my “home” machine, so to say.

It’s a test server running quite a few things and sitting on a local domain with working dns.

Apache/2.2.11 (Unix) DAV/2 mod_ssl/2.2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.8h mod_auth_kerb/5.4 mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.6.2 SVN/1.6.1 PHP/5.2.9-pl2-gentoo with Suhosin-Patch configured

Platform is gentoo-amd64.

[johnhiler]

My site is # 10 on the list of top sites, with just over 150k posts:

http://bbshowcase.org/forums/view/top100

I’m going to be staying on 0.9 for now. I’m not sure what to do about the upgrade path… I’m going to try 1.0 on some test servers, but so far I haven’t seen a reason to upgrade yet.

[bb-gian]

Thanks r-a-y, thanks Jason_JM…

I am now convinced that I need to go straight to WP MU 2.7.1 instead of upgrading to regualr WP 2.8

The thing is that I have a running site with bbPress alpha 6 integrated and didn’t figure out the best way to switch to a WP MU + BuddyPress + bbPress 1.0 configuration.

Anyway, you’re right I should make another post for it, but where? WordPressforum? bbPress forum (here)? BuddyPress forum?

The biggest trouble I am having now is to figure out how can I test all thenew configuration and set up leaving the existing site running and than switch to the new congfig, when I see that everything works properly. Copy the existing into a subfolder and with anew database? Mmmh…

[r-a-y]

At the moment, WP and WPMU are separately maintained. But there are plans to merge the two codebases into one, don’t expect that in the next couple of months. More like next year sometime.

So if you’re planning on using BuddyPress in a few months, I would recommend getting acquainted with WPMU 2.7.1 since it works with the latest version of BuddyPress. This is just my advice, but I wouldn’t upgrade to WP 2.8.

Moving over from WP to WPMU is not that straightforward. You have to do a number of things in order to get things right.

Since this is straying away from the original topic, create a new thread about this and others can chime in.

[michael3185]

@Marcomail; Thanks for raising this point about a sidebar forum list. I was curious and tested out the code I posted above, and it works very well (without the table definition). I just put the forum loop into the hottags div section and it looks fine. The site link is in my previous post if you want a look, and the code I used is;

<div id="hottags">

<h2><?php _e('Forums'); ?></h2>

<?php if ( bb_forums() ) : ?>

<?php while ( bb_forum() ) : ?>

<a href="<?php forum_link(); ?>"><?php forum_name(); ?></a><br />

<?php endwhile; ?>

<?php endif; // bb_forums() ?>

<br />



<h2><?php _e('Tags'); ?></h2>

<p class="frontpageheatmap"><?php bb_tag_heat_map( 9, 13, 'pt', 50 ); ?></p>

</div>

It tidies up the front page a lot, and there’s less need to scroll down to see the recent posts. Cheers!

[johnhiler]

Ah, that may have been the issue. Are you guys using the latest version of Hidden Forums (v 0.0.9)? There was a patch for a related issue there (this patch is incorporated into the latest version of Hidden Forums):

https://bbpress.org/plugins/topic/hidden-forums/page/5/#post-3412

This fixed my pagination…

[Ryan Hellyer]

ps. the 2.0 branch of WordPress was it’s best version ,

No prizes for guessing who likes stable software then!

I’m quite used to the WP upgrade system now. I didn’t like the frequent upgrades in the beginning, but I’ve slowly realised that as long as I keep my plugins/themes up to date with the latest WP recommended approaches that any new updates are highly unlikely to affect them.

I also never liked the 0.9 branch very much. But I get the impression some of you are happy to keep using it for quite some time yet. I guess if someone can be bothered maintaining it then they may as well. I’ve had clients request for support for ancient WP plugins before and I try as hard as possible to get them to upgrade. Supporting out of date software is generally at the absolute bottom of my priority list.

[taboo]

Navigation on the front page is screwed (I use CSS modified kakumei): when I go to page 2 (/page/2) the link attached to text “page 1” is the very same page 2 (/page/2) and not “/” as it should be.

the code:

<?php bb_latest_topics_pages( array( 'before' => '<div class="nav">', 'after' => '</div>' ) ); ?>

Any clues please?`

[Jason Giedymin]

This is a good manual way of upgrading below.

– Create a new database, call it wordpress2 or 3 or whatever. Make sure it is different from the database in use.

– Choose Option A or B Below:

Option A

– Backup (because you’ll be overwriting the old files) your http folder the server points to.

– If your httpdocs folder is called: [httpdocs] then: mv [httpdocs] [httpdocs_backup]

Option B

– Create a new directory, with correct permissions.

– Tell your webserver to serve from this new location

– Install wordpress and bbpress and assign it to use the new wordpress database.

– Get all functionality working, like integration plug-ins etc…

– Once it all works, backup the httpdocs folder. [tar -cvjf httpdocs.bz2 httpdocs] This is a good step as you can now take these working configs and stick it into a new upgraded wordpress.

– Go back and restore the old wordpress because now you will upgrade.

– Install wordpress first. Install using the Old database name, when it asks you to upgrade the database, do so.

– Install bbpress, do the same as above.

– take your Config file from the test run above, and copy them into your upgrade.

Personally, I do a complete backup on a schedule and just manually run the script again for when I do an upgrade. This script will backup all my http/https folders, my server configs, and my database all in one shot. If anything gets messed up I just do a restore and It’s like starting from scratch. No matter how messed up things get. You might want to think about that. If there is enough demand I will gladly publish these helpful scripts.

[Jason Giedymin]

Here is the latest integration rundown. I first lay out some helpful hints to those out there looking for them, and toward the bottom I point out something which the integration plug-in does not properly handle. That is the HTTPS secure cookie upon logging out. Depending on your setup this may cause issues. Most of the time you’ll be ok. If your like us and have added a proprietary layer of security for internal use only, you like to make sure when your secure cookies expire they expire asap and are completely gone.

I recommend maybe, just a suggestion as I’m not privy to the dev’s stream of intentions to query if ‘BB_FORCE_SSL_xxx…’ is set. This is probably a much better indication of scheme than relying on the database option only. I know your busy Sam and that wpmu integration is like the last thing on your list. However, some of the code base is already merging.

Noteables: Step #6, Step #7

But before you continue:

1.) Disable Your Cache Server (Varnish/Squid). Go straight to your webserver (Eliminate other causes.)

2.) Get Integration working on plain http first. DO NOT define any force SSL/Admin anywhere on either wpmu/wp/bbpress.

3.) Go back and integrate if you can’t get #2 done. Some helpful hints that work:

3a.) Install wp/wpmu

3b.) Install bbpress

3c.) Install integration plugin for wp. In the option where it says complete URL, that means “http://mysite.com” and not “mysite.com”. If your _only_ (meaning 100% of the time) ever going to use HTTPS then go ahead and define HTTPS.

3d.) I made sure all key/salts were setup in wp first, and then mirrored them into bb-config prepending BB_ in front of each Define. I defined manually: AUTH_KEY, SECURE_AUTH_KEY, LOGGED_IN_KEY, NONCE_KEY, AUTH_SALT, LOGGED_IN_SALT, AND SECURE_AUTH_SALT (7 in total defines).

Once you have HTTP squared away Proceed with SSL:

4.) The integration plugin will try do some things for you in the backend, it will actually try to do all the cookie work for you. However it works off values you set via the integration option page and your wpmu site options.

To take control of a few options, go ahead and define MANUALLY the following: (just as the plug-in suggests and more sometimes):

COOKIEHASH, COOKIE_DOMAIN, SITECOOKIEPATH, and COOKIEPATH.

5.) Add to wp-config.php:

define(‘FORCE_SSL_LOGIN’, true);

define(‘FORCE_SSL_ADMIN’, true);

6.) Add to bb-config.php:

define(‘BB_FORCE_SSL_USER_FORMS’, true);

define(‘BB_FORCE_SSL_ADMIN’, true);

7.) The kicker for me since I’m using MU Subdomains, i HAD to put into my bb-config:

$bb->cookiedomain=’.mydomain.com’ //Yes, with the dot before the domain.

(This is literally the only direct access object config I set in my PHP file. All the rest is handled by ‘DEFINE’ )

Up to this point you should have integration with HTTP and HTTPS. Back and forth, forth and back, every which way. You should have it done without any manual speed up accessors. If it works, go ahead and add them but make sure you set them correctly. If your fanatical about security then cross the line, otherwise go get a beer, woman or pillow whatever.

---

The Line

---

8.) Log into BBpress. Goto your main blog, and wp will see you have a ‘logged_in’ cookie. Will display the site_admin link. Just go ahead and click log out.

9.) Logging out will log you out, except a few cookies are left over. This is because the integration plug-in never inspects the HTTPS scheme properly. It will always look for HTTP. Test this by editing line 182 in the plugin file to read:

$secure = true; //Don’t forget to change me back to false (default).

10.) Repeat, and you’ll notice your cookies (the ones which matter) get blown away.

Notes:

– If you install WPMU 2.8 Alpha/Beta/Etc… you must _NOT_ enable

define( ‘WP_AUTH_COOKIE_VERSION’, 1 )

as the plugin suggests.

– I DID NOT use any of the “speed up” manual configs which the bbpress integration tool points out. If you can’t get it working without these settings, adding them may not help at all and masks your real issue which is some other settings are screwed.

– you NEED to make sure your URLs are correct. That means every single URL defined in your database in any meta table, options etc… Especially the case with the integration plugin.

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

*blinkblink* WOW. Yeah, don’t move yet! Make a test forum and test out all those on there. There’s a list of plugins that work on RC1/RC2 that will give you a starting point for what ones should work…

Allow-Images is messed up and doesn’t work anymore.

[michael3185]

Plugins – blimey…

admin-add-user

allow-images

approve-user-registration

auto-add-favorites

avatar-upload

bb-chunk

bb-tweaks

bb-code-lite

bbPM

block-long-requests

enhanced-tag-heat-map

header-meta

human-test

move-it

my-views

new-favorite-notification

no-follow-on-reg

private-forums

profile-fields

related-topics

show-error-page

terms-of-service

year-long-cookies

Some are simple things taken from code in forum discussions, and the error-page one is my own.

I just tried one to notify mods of new posts, but it failed with a DB field/table missing, so I assume it was written or upgraded for 1.0, and of course a lot of plugins will be upgraded now. Still thinking, but I can always test drive it on an empty forum.

[Martin R.]

Testet 0.9, Rc3 and 1.0..

Asked my hoster about NFS, they said no..

But ok.. ill give it a try. Thank you very much!

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

This is NOT an attempt to knock _ck_ (any more than she meant to diss on Sam), as her points are totally valid and, in fact, I’m a member of ‘If it ain’t broke…’ If you’re ON .9 and everything works and you’re happy, then STAY. If you have needs that can no longer be met by .9, however, you may need to start looking into 1.0. There’s a reason that some people are still on WP 1.5ish releases. It works and they’re happy. There’s nothing wrong with it.

My reasons to use 1.0

1. You haven’t installed bbPress yet, so you don’t have an existing stable site.

2. You don’t actually use a lot of plugins anyway.

3. You can integrate with WP 2.8 and WPMU without having to hack the bbPress cookies (thanks to WP changing things all over the dang place…)

4. The Admin area ‘matches’ WP and, lets face it, pretty is better

5. If you’re going to write new plugins for bb, you may as well write them for the release version since that’s the way it’s going to be.

6. While it is slower, we’re not talking ‘it now takes 3 minutes to load a page’ like some bbs out there. And it’s still faster than WP.

7. Given the speed of servers these days, you may not ever notice the DB queries.

8. No matter how long you spend debugging, you’re never going to find all the bugs until something’s used for real by hundreds of users, so months vs years really doesn’t mean as much as you might think. Now DAYS versus months… Still, until a lot of people get out there and try to use it for weird ways, 1.0 won’t be as well tested as 0.9, but that’s true of any new release of software.

9. RC seems rushed, with a lot of slapped up fixes, but that’s because a group of us were out there breaking things for the rest of you. The major kinks are fixed.

10. Once you bite the bullet, the small upgrade to 1.0.1 (which is inevitable and we all know it) will seem like nothing.

11. You really want to see that download counter MOVE!

Okay, so some of mine are for the amusing side.

I’ve been on the 1.0 train since I started, since at the time you couldn’t do 2.7 WP and 0.9 BB. I’ve never had a major OMG! show stopper problem and I think bbPress is far far better than the old systems I’ve used. Small, simple, easy.

Thanks to Sam and also SO many thanks to _ck_ for her patience with stupid questions

[_ck_]

Actually my warning is geared more towards existing 0.9 users who won’t realize that 1.0 is not a simple upgrade to 0.9 like 0.9 was to 0.8 – 0.9 was just 0.8.4 with a whimsical number bump. Calling this release “1.0 final” gives the impression of well tested and compatible, which it is neither.

Someone who has been happily using 0.9 on an active site with several plugins and tries to upgrade to 1.0 is virtually guaranteed to run into problems. Even worse, if they have not backed up their database, or don’t immediately downgrade, they will lose their ability to roll back to the stable version they had.

Ignoring internet-wide standards for “alpha” vs. “beta” vs “release candidate” labels is a very dangerous thing to do as far as user experience. IMHO 1.0 is currently still at a beta level. Calling it “release candidate” and now “final” is just politics to please some of the least patient yet most vocal people around here.

[_ck_]

500ms on a empty bbPress install hints at NFS

SMF would probably be fastest on your current server as it uses 13 files to generate the front-page vs well over 100 files for bbPress 1.0

[_ck_]

A reminder to those using 0.9 not to upgrade to 1.0 yet as many of my plugins (and others) do not support 1.0. I will not be addressing plugin upgrades until December.

10 reasons why to wait a few months to upgrade to bbPress 1.0

1. Your 0.9 install is stable and the core is secure

2. Roughly half the plugins for 0.9 will not currently work with 1.0

3. Once you upgrade you cannot downgrade due to database changes

4. It does not have significant additional features over 0.9

5. It doesn’t use the proven 0.9 core, major parts have been rewritten for BackPress

6. It’s slower, uses 50% more code when producing the same output as 0.9

7. It uses more database queries per page than 0.9

8. It’s code has only months of debugging vs years for 0.8 + 0.9

9. RC was rushed, some changes were made only days ago and are not well tested

10. Version 1.0.1 will be out in a few days (if not a few hours)

[Martin R.]

The one i found under Downloads: “The latest stable version of bbPress is “Bechet” version 1.0:”

[Martin R.]

Footer tells me: 0.397 seconds – but thats relative. I will change host and server when I publish the board. I just know 4 other boards that are faster on my server right now. So its not exactly beeing about “slow” – Its about making it faster. Perhaps with Caching because my board will have 90% passive readers/guests who can wait a few minutes for updates and should not slow it down.

But thanks. Looks like there arent any tipps or a caching-plugin. To bad, bbPress would be really great.

Firefox/Firebug/Yslow/Pagespeed-Tests:

Punbb: 200ms

Vbulletin: 200ms

Minibb: 300ms

Seoboard: 400ms

BBpress: 500ms

Phpbb: 500ms

Vanilla: 600ms

+-50ms

[chrishajer]

Heh, Sam. It’s been like that since the 0.7 series I think. I’ve only ever had one forum, but it always showed the dropdown I used to fix it but them maintaining the changes across updates became a hassle.

Also, the width of the dropdown was never wide enough, in FF3 (and FF2) at least. Never really tested it. I can’t recall if it was fixable with CSS or if that width was in the template. I think in the template with a width=”xx” value.

Was going to take a screenshot just now, but I realized I took the select out in my installation, so people don’t have to choose, and hardcoded the value into the form. BUT, there is still a dropdown with just one value (if you have just one forum) when you’re logged in as keymaster and you have the option to move the topic to another forum. Probably shouldn’t even show the option to move it to another forum if there’s only one.

Weird that this is just coming up now. I always just thought it was normal.

[Sam Bauers]

To be honest though, I’ve never tried integration across SSL sites, it may not be possible with currently existing tools.

Setting bbPress to also force SSL might do it, but I can’t do any testing right now.

[Jason Giedymin]

WPMU Trunk + bbPress Latest RC + Integration Plugin with:

define(‘FORCE_SSL_LOGIN’, true);

define(‘FORCE_SSL_ADMIN’, true);

Does not work. Setting the values to false (disabling SSL/HTTPS), integration works great. However when it comes to SSL, forget it. I’m going to say it’s impossible.

We need SSL to work across software packages, security is paramount.

Any help from anyone or the devs, let me know.

Again, this is a SSL WPMU install.

[Jason Giedymin]

Running:

WPMU + Latest RC of BBPress, User tables integrated, v1 of Integration Plug (on wp side) installed. Latest RC of bbpress was installed directory fresh but over an existing bbpress 9.x (latest stable) tables.

Tests Passed:

– Logging into each site individually works fine. Can’t log out without errors (understandably as there is a cookie issue see below).

Tests Failed:

– Log into bb-press via https

– Log into wp blog.

– Should go to Admin.

Debug:

– Stepped through to find wp was looking for “wordpress_sec_[long hash string]” cookie. Thinking it was ‘mal formed’ it redirects to the wp login.

Question:

– Why would the “wordpress_sec” cookie not be created by bb_press?

I will be stepping through the bbpress code but wanted to put a heads up in the forums if maybe someone already knows whats going on.

Btw Is there a developer forum?