[Gautam Gupta]

1) When is 1.0.3 coming out. Seriously. What day? (when I check the “bbpress company blog” I seem to only see hacked up IRC chat logs from 5 months back… so much for “official sounding” posts, huh!)

I had sent a mail to Matt a few hours back, lets wait for sometime.

2) Who (names?) has editing rights to bbpress.org?

Chris (I am not sure), matt, mdawaffe.

3) Is bbpress definitely becoming a WP plugin?

There are 90% chances for this.

4) If bbpress becomes a WP plugin, will it also remain standalone?

5) How will bbpress plugins be integrated into a proposed WP plugin?

As bbPress is not in the plugin phase, there is no roadmap for this (for the time being). Also check https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/bbpress-as-a-wordpress-plugin-thoughts

6) What exactly is backpress, and what is it’s status?

Check http://backpress.org/ There were also some developments in it about 2 weeks back.

7) Who (names?) is in charge of updates/commits/releases for bbpress at this moment?

Matt, mdawaffe, filosofo (inactive), chrishajer. Don’t know about anyone else.

How can plugin devs update their bbpress plugins and stay in touch with higher ups?

What do you mean by “higher ups”?

[wtfmatt]

@Gautam*

I just said that is was set and at that time there were no open tickets for 1.0.3 as far as I remember (and it was new then). Also, it is Gautam.

Not really following you completely, but from what it sounds like, you just keep proving that nothing in TRAC is reliable. Deadlines aren’t met, or even cared about really, tickets are ignored by those in power, (let alone shared with the public, and NO, 99% of users don’t know about TRAC)… and overall, coordination is appalling, at best.

If you choose to hold onto the wishful idea that TRAC and deadlines and work are all peachy keen and your work is worthwhile, then by all means, keep going… ignorance is bliss after all. Hell if I worked as hard as some of you guys, I would be spitting bullets about now…

So since Kevin wants me to address specifics, here are my questions, to the entire bbpress community:

1) When is 1.0.3 coming out. Seriously. What day? (when I check the “bbpress company blog” I seem to only see hacked up IRC chat logs from 5 months back… so much for “official sounding” posts, huh!)

2) Who (names?) has editing rights to bbpress.org?

3) Is bbpress definitely becoming a WP plugin?

4) If bbpress becomes a WP plugin, will it also remain standalone?

5) How will bbpress plugins be integrated into a proposed WP plugin?

6) What exactly is backpress, and what is it’s status?

7) Who (names?) is in charge of updates/commits/releases for bbpress at this moment?

How can plugin devs update their bbpress plugins and stay in touch with higher ups?

That should be enough for now. Please, no condescending answers, since we are aiming for “maturity” in this thread from here on out. This is not just for me, but the community, remember. Even if I’m an immature idiot with false hope…

[Terence Milbourn]

Kevin, you’re a great bloke and your heart is soooo in the right place, but you are being naive here. Do you think Matt got where he is, that WordPress, bbPress, BuddyPress and all the others got where they are today without him making demands on people. You are wrong about that Kevin. It is perfectly OK to make demands on people, as long as they are for the greater good. Often it helps people find out who they really are and what they can become; what they can achieve. Preferring their ‘easy’ life, folk sometimes don’t make those demands of themselves without that little shove, that imperative, that demand. But as they say “…come the day, come the man”. And they say it for a very good reason, Kevin. Clearly you must think a demand is being made of you here. Is it really that demand you are trying to deny?

[Gautam Gupta]

@Guatam, oh. LOL. I thought there was a new due date, but I guess I should have realized you were referring to the April 2010 date, which only serves to once again prove that nothing about bbpress TRAC is reliable.

I just said that is was set and at that time there were no open tickets for 1.0.3 as far as I remember (and it was new then). Also, it is Gautam.

I love your work here, and I’m sorry to upset you with my bluntness, but even the “devs” who “check trac” are ignored by matt 90% of the time, so, just want to put that out there as gently as possible. They say dictatorships are efficient, and maybe that’s true, but only when the dictator is awake and involved. When the dictator is on constant “out of office” status, then all you have is a bunch of peasants (?) working hard for the king (for free) who foolishly think he is paying attention to their efforts and words.

That really doesn’t matter to me.

@Kevin, p.s. no offense (actually yes, offense), but please stop trolling if you have nothing new to say (especially since you are obnoxiously hypocritical). You waste *precious* thread space by trying to nitpick others’ verbiage with whiny condescending comments.

Atleast, what he says, is true.

[wtfmatt]

@Guatam, oh. LOL. I thought there was a new due date, but I guess I should have realized you were referring to the April 2010 date, which only serves to once again prove that nothing about bbpress TRAC is reliable. I love your work here, and I’m sorry to upset you with my bluntness, but even the “devs” who “check trac” are ignored by matt 90% of the time, so, just want to put that out there as gently as possible.

They say dictatorships are efficient, and maybe that’s true, but only when the dictator is awake and involved. When the dictator is on constant “out of office” status, then all you have is a bunch of peasants (?) working hard for the king (for free) who foolishly think he is paying attention to their efforts and words.

@Kevin, p.s. no offense (actually yes, offense), but please stop trolling if you have nothing new to say (especially since you are obnoxiously hypocritical). You waste *precious* thread space by trying to nitpick others’ verbiage with whiny condescending comments. Let alone, the irony of you making *worthwhile* bbpress discussions even more distracted and ineffective then they already are. I recommend you join a political forum or something so you can get that crap out of your system before you dump on bbpress.org every night.

For the record, most people don’t enjoy broadcasting their name, photo, and a list of continents they have saved onto the internet.

[Gautam Gupta]

Regarding bbpress.org edit privileges, AGAIN… who the hell has them? another example of matt not being clear, or at least proof that whoever HAS edit privileges (maybe the few you mentioned) don’t give a rat’s arse about listening to feedback.

I think chris atleast has the power to make blog posts, but I think he shouldn’t as blog posts are taken as official announcements which should be made only by the people of the company of the project.

Also. IM SICK of people saying “look at TRAC… look at TRAC” … who the hell looks at TRAC? And who the hell actually listens to and implements what is said on TRAC (re: bbpress)? Nobody and barely anybody with power, respectively! TRAC is mostly time wasted back and forth and tickets eventually being rejected or closed by matt or others, or shoved off into the big, vague, undefined world of “backpress.”

Developers look at trac! Just look at log and see how many commits chrishajer has made in the recent weeks to fix bugs. This para is 100% insane and totally wrong!

THERE IS NO POINT to contribute to trac when matt IGNORES EVERYTHING and nothing has gotten anywhere for 2 friggin years. Why funnel feedback to the top of the chain when only one person, who doesn’t care or listen anyway, is the only person able to activate them?

You haven’t been in the community for long (as you said in one of your previous replies) or not keeping a tab on the developments, so I prefer you to keep your mouth closed.

@Gautam, what due date was set for 1.0.3 cuz I have never come across one, and I know about 20,000 users who would love to know as well.

Check it yourself (don’t be so lazy) – https://trac.bbpress.org/milestone/1.0.3

[wtfmatt]

@reboot now,

Talk of forking is never premature when the community has gone 2 years with chaos and barely any progress. You say we must wait for devs to lead the way. No we don’t. We *would* need to fork, and then worry about how to re-organize from there (if supported by multiple ppl).

Regarding bbpress.org edit privileges, AGAIN… who the hell has them? another example of matt not being clear, or at least proof that whoever HAS edit privileges (maybe the few you mentioned) don’t give a rat’s arse about listening to feedback.

Also. IM SICK of people saying “look at TRAC… look at TRAC” … who the hell looks at TRAC? And who the hell actually listens to and implements what is said on TRAC (re: bbpress)? Nobody and barely anybody with power, respectively! TRAC is mostly time wasted back and forth and tickets eventually being rejected or closed by matt or others, or shoved off into the big, vague, undefined world of “backpress.”

THERE IS NO POINT to contribute to trac when matt IGNORES EVERYTHING and nothing has gotten anywhere for 2 friggin years. Why funnel feedback to the top of the chain when only one person, who doesn’t care or listen anyway, is the only person able to activate them?

@Gautam, what due date was set for 1.0.3 cuz I have never come across one, and I know about 20,000 users who would love to know as well.

@Kevin, you are finally starting to come around, but I won’t scare you off with praise.

This is not a “bashing” thread. But if that’s the word you want to use, then yah, maybe matt does deserve a bit of bashing when he disrepects all of us this much.

You can’t really compare open source internet communities to anything in real life. this is not CEO matt or volunteer matt. this is matt, the one dude who has the key to bbpress and refuses to let anyone in the door.

Its perfectly reasonable to demand more from him, and call him out on his crap. christ people, this ain’t The Apprentice.

[Gautam Gupta]

I’m still not sure if its support will be continued or not, I just inferred that from the deletion of 0.9.0.7 milestone.

And thanks for the appreciation!

[kevinjohngallagher]

The latest version of bbpress0.9 (bbPress0.9.0.7), has been deleted from Trac effectively closing support for the bbPress0.9 branch.

This change (and indeed decision) was made 6 weeks ago.

• No blog post occured.
• No topic was opened.
• No post was made.
• You were not informed of this change.

Thankfully Gautam, who has been doing some amazing and thankless work on the bbPress1.0.3 branch, posted this information 20 posts down into a topic that isn’t fit for ‘sticky status’.

Also check http://trac.bbpress.org/ticket/1174#comment:3

This means that 0.9 branch would no longer be supported.

– Gautam

http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/what-the-heck-is-going-on#post-69869

We thank you Gautam for your exemplary and constant development and your attempts to keep the bbPress community in the loop.

Cheers dude!

[kevinjohngallagher]

… I’ll fire a mail to matt/mdawaffe to get it released.

Gautam,

It’s ace that you know this mate, it really is.

But you’re the only one who knows this. Even ChrisHajer said the other did he didn’t know how this was going to work.

Also check https://trac.bbpress.org/ticket/1174#comment:3

This means that 0.9 branch would no longer be supported.

I think this is a great example of where bbPress is currently failing.

bbpress0.9 support being removed 6 months earlier than planned/reported/promised/stated on this website is actually news that should be posted somewhere. Like a blog post, or even it’s own topic. Instead Matt deleted the 0.9.0.7 branch 6 weeks ago, and the first non-developer members of the community read about it is 20 posts into a topic.

I try and keep an eye on Trac and test nightlies (ok for me it’s weeklies, sorry), but even for me this change by Matt slipped by me. How vigilant do we truly expect average bbPress user to be?

How hard is it to write a blog post, or a topic?

I’m no a fan of this Matt bashing, or anyone bashing, but surely someone/anyone could have posted about this so the community on the whole knew about it? To me, thats a lack of respect.

[mr_pelle]

Just contribute to trac, there are a few tickets pending for 1.0.3 milestone, contribute patches

I wish my bbPress knowledge was better, so that I could commit (good) patches… imho most bbPress community isn’t able to contribute actively with patches, and I’m not talking about newbies. Most of 1.1’s and 1.5’s open tickets are not bugs, but enhancements, requiring deep knowledge of bbPress and of its coding standards (see also this ticket).

As for 1.0.3’s pending tickets, one is not going anywhere till BackPress moves on and the other one is more or less frozen at tellyworth’s 3-weeks-old reply “I’ve tested this briefly and it seems to work”.

EDIT:

Also check https://trac.bbpress.org/ticket/1174#comment:3

This means that 0.9 branch would no longer be supported.

Well, that’s what the Download page said the first time I got here (March ’10): “The previous 0.9 branch of bbPress will be maintained with security related fixes until late 2010”. _ck_, are you really going to catch 0.9 before it falls into oblivion?

[Rich Pedley]

wtfmatt amongst his mass of text also said:

And as _ck_ said, if it becomes a plugin, then what the heck happens to the bbpress plugins? You can’t install plugins of plugins!

really? guess my bbpress akismet extras plugin wasn’t possible then. Or many of my unreleased extras plugins that I write don’t exist either. They won’t work out of the box, but you must have little faith in the project if you think that hooks won’t be included to extend it.

This thread is not doing anything for the community other than to make me think Matt was correct with his belief’s about the community here.

[Gautam Gupta]

Also check https://trac.bbpress.org/ticket/1174#comment:3

This means that 0.9 branch would no longer be supported.

1.0.3’s due date was also set.

[Gautam Gupta]

Just go to Trac and see how active developers are (or were, if you are saying that sambauers wasn’t communicating), discussing issues, fixing bugs etc.

You know, I even received a mail from Matt on May 19 asking if I tested the commit done by mdawaffe (following my reply on this ticket – https://trac.bbpress.org/ticket/1150#comment:15 ).

There’s no point in blaming matt, or anyone or talking about a lead developer/manager. Just contribute to trac, there are a few tickets pending for 1.0.3 milestone, contribute patches, I would test them, chris would commit them and when everything’s fixed, I’ll fire a mail to matt/mdawaffe to get it released.

And if you want me to jump on anyone of the sides (to support Automattic people or to contribute to bbPress), then I wont.

Please close this topic now!

[kevinjohngallagher]

Don’t worry, that bug’s in backPress not in bbPress – and ChrisHajer and Gautam have submitted a patch.

In the mean time, load http://btko.webfactional.com/sq36/forums/my-templates/s36/style.css in a browser to see what i mean

[btko]

Hello,

I’m starting to modify the Kakumei theme and I’m kind of stuck; I’ve made a new folder in ‘my-templates’ and I copied over the style.css from the Kakumei theme. I plan to use it as a starting point for something more personal.

But there are is zero CSS being applied now: http://btko.webfactional.com/sq36/forums/

From reading the Docs I understood it that by just having the style.css bbPress should find all of the other files it needs from the default theme, but it doesn’t seem to be finding anything.

Any thoughts?

Regards,

[wildbug]

@chrishajer, When I go to http://www.example.com/bbpress I get this message:

Forums

Register or log in – lost password?

Username

Password

Remember me

Search:

Forums » Page not found!

Page not found!

I’m sorry, but there is nothing at this URL.

Forums is proudly powered by bbPress.

If I click on any of the links (e.g., to register, to go to forums) it just sends me to my homepage….any ideas?

[arcadedig]

Great website. I don’t speak Dutch, but can still easily find my way around. Looks great, and functions great. Love your bbPress integration.

[kevinjohngallagher]

For me, it comes down to this:

In my opinion there’s no point in getting developers for a project, and then adding someone to Manage it above them because there’s a fairly good chance that the project plan will not be what the developer had in mind.

The best plan, and again I’m biased, would be to get a group of like minded folks with a vision and have someone lead it, and lay out a plan, and then find a developer(s) who would want to join that project.

That way you’re getting a developer(s), who knows in advance what they’re getting themselves in for

Being able to share the same message from top (PM) to bottom (community) enables growth and ease of people joining. It encourages all thats good about Open Source Software.

I learnt that from Automattic

They’ve dropped the ball here, thats all. If they don’t pick it up, someone will. But posts ripping into Matt as a person don’t help anyone

=============================================================

Look, i’m not wanting to jump the gun here.

I think this is a really bad time to have this discussion. 1.0.3 is nearing release, and with it will bring bugs and questions and uproar that is both good “bbPress is saved” and bad “bbPress is doomed” and any good/useful conversation is going to be undermined.

Lets get 1.0.3 out the door, lets avoid posts like one from the orignal author, and lets see where the chips lie after the bulls in the china shop have left and the dust has settled (bulls being WP3 and bbPress1.0.3)

Thats just my opinion though, I’m sure there are many here who have both other opinions and much better opinions. Especially those not replying to froum posts at now 4.30am ;-]

Good night all, sleep well!

[kevinjohngallagher]

Nope,

We hardcoded alot of stuff into the core.

That said, it’s in a Javascript file, so you could change it without messing up any of the PHP running bbPress, or you could try and overwrite it with another jQuery plugin or code to overwrite the option for confirmPostDelete inbbTopicJS.

I’ve not played around with jQuery since 1.1 so can’t talk with any authority on doing so, but I’m sure it’s possible.

[Greg]

I’m not particularly fond of your generalization about developer communication skills. That’s not my experience at all. It is just an ignorant stereotype.

That said, devs are necessary but not sufficient. I agree a lead is essential. My point is that talking about forking the code without committed devs is ridiculous.

Instead of complaining (justified though it may be) we need to identify the developers who are interested and capable of driving bbPress forward.

[kevinjohngallagher]

This talk of forking is premature. Where is the developer hiding that will drive this?

Agreed, but I think having a developer to drive this will just lead us back round to where we are. Developers rarely (and I know i’m generalising) excel at communication, criticism, managing expectations and keeping project plans and feature lists in tact.

In honesty, looking at the commits on trac, we’ve had some great developers throw their hat in the ring, what we’ve not had, is someone to lead the project and manage it.

But really, given this thread’s original topic, its not a great basis for this conversation.

Who currently has commit privileges for bbPress? Matt said there were a couple of people that he had granted these to.

Yes he did, he also said that he’d given out the privilege to edit bbPress.org to numerous people. Can’t say I’ve seen any edits or blog posts.

It would be great to get an offical list of folks who can make commits (i’ll include my guesstimates below), if only to see how active that list is with non-Automattic folks other than Gautam.

ChrisHajer then Matt/Michael/Sam (from Automattic).

Probably Trent (from Automattic) too.

I’d be surprised if _ck_, Gautam, and NightGunner wasn’t able to either.

[Greg]

This talk of forking is premature. Where is the developer hiding that will drive this?

In fact, it would be good to get a sense for the real programmers that are hanging out here.

Who currently has commit privileges for bbPress? Matt said there were a couple of people that he had granted these to.

[chrishajer]

I like the patch. I wish I could commit to BackPress. Maybe J^3 can? (anyone remember him from here?) I will try to ring him.

I will apply this to my trunk installation and see if it fixes the problem.

UPDATE:

http://bbpress.chrishajer.com/trunk/topic.php?id=2&replies=5#post-3

Nice job Gautam. I will hit up JohnJamesJacoby and see if he can commit this. I know he’s involved with BuddyPress, but maybe he knows who can do it for BackPress?

[jurasiks]

i said about forking bbpress some months ago,

but we don’t need to make second fluxBB (or something like that)

and if fork = new engine (not using bbpress source)

yes, SEO urls, cute front-page (not like on another board engines)

but, somebody will say again: “just wait bbpress 1.1 and then fork”)