[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

@chrishajer, I know it was a recent ticket. I posted about it above. And yet the folks who are complaining about it never say thanks for agreeing it’s an issue. Which yeah, pisses me off, I admit it and I probably was a bit more bitchy than I should be. For that I apologize. I was grousing, in general, of the fact that people expect miracles. This isn’t an excuse for my attitude, and I’m not gonna delve into how I’m on Sam’s end of this at work right now. It’s a case of feeling the pain and wanting to defend my fellow techie sorts.

To anyone who felt I was attacking you personally, I didn’t mean to, and please accept my apology. Like you, I feel strongly about things, and disagreements come when people feel strongly.

To the developers: Thank you for raising a ticket on integration.

[johnhiler]

I was going to sit this thread out, until I saw some of the recent comments.

I understand that there is frustration over the WordPress integration issues (I share them as well). But I don’t think it’s fair or productive to lash out at the very people that make this community move forward (Sam and _ck_, among others).

The motivation and energy of key contributors is the most precious asset of an open source community, as they are what keeps the community forward.

The feedback and ideas of key users is also hugely important, as they tell the community where to go.

But when feedback attacks the motivation and energy of key contributors, I’ve learned not to just sit back. Because even if the feedback is 100% dead on, if the key contributors are hurt by the way it’s delivered… then as a community, we have been stopped dead in our tracks.

I think we all agree that full integration with a shared signin is a priority. If we unite behind that goal, maybe we can achieve it. I just think that the motivation and energy of key contributors is key to our getting there.

One last thought: Sam appears to work mostly on bbPress, whereas the integration work needs to be done on the WordPress side. So if we want to advocate for full integration, maybe we should organize as a community? If you look at the most popular “ideas” for WordPress, full integration isn’t on the list:

https://wordpress.org/extend/ideas/?show=popular

I am probably missing it, but I don’t even see full integration as a submitted idea here:

https://wordpress.org/extend/ideas/search.php?q=bbpress&forums=1

If we could agree as a community on the wording, I’m sure we could all vote it up. We only need 159 votes to get onto the list of Most Popular Ideas. Maybe that would help Sam’s ticket get some developers assigned to it.

I would rather focus our energies there, especially since I don’t believe that our discussions here are going to change the priorities of the WordPress development team (which is what we need to move forward).

Best,

John

[chrishajer]

@Ipstenu: that ticket was opened two days ago. This topic was started three days ago. I’d say people bringing integration up here brought attention to the issue. This thread has been good for that reason alone.

[Sam Bauers]

Kevin, the cookie and login integration that works with BB0.9 – WP2.5 also works with BB1.0 – WP2.6 or 2.7. The only issues remaining arise when you login via WordPress instead of bbPress, the simple fix for this is to redirect WordPress logins to bbPress, but I will be building a plugin to make this (and some other things) easier.

The “deep” integration issues where people load WordPress inside bbPress are still outstanding, and as I said may never be resolved and might eventually be unsupported. The XML-RPC functionality being developed is intended as a launching pad for people who need bbPress data inside their WordPress installs, I also expect that there will be some functionality written to get data going in the other direction as well. We are using this already “internally” with the BuddyPress forums component which communicates with bbPress 1.0 to provide group forums and eventually other functionality to that software. There is also already a plugin to pull some basic data from bbPress to WordPress widgets.

I don’t think you should blame Matt for XML-RPC being added either, I think it was mdawaffe who wanted pingbacks and I think I was the person who liked the idea of a complete XML-RPC server enough to actually write it.

Features tend to forge ahead when they have a champion for them and as the only major contributor to the code at the moment that kind of leaves it up to me as to what gets done. There has only been a small amount of thorough and reported testing of deep integration done by users so far who are actually trying to make it happen (see #972). That doesn’t exactly excite me to work on a feature that neither I nor the company I work for particularly need, especially when I already have a low opinion of the technique in the first place. In the same breath though, I understand that others may want it and I’m not actively trying to stop it from happening either. If someone fixed, patched it and put it in Trac, I would commit it with a smiley emoticon and a “props” in capital letters.

So in short, it needs someone to take the lead on it, if you want it done sooner rather than later.

Talking about community discontent by referring to the contents of these forums seems a bit disingenuous. These are support forums which by their nature invite people to announce their problems, all we can tell by it is that some people have problems with the software, sometimes. I’m pretty sure we aren’t getting every user coming through here. It’s not a gauge, and perhaps the dreaded Facebook page will help us find the people who don’t post here a bit more easily, perhaps it is something that can be used to gauge what the community mood is like. If anything it might give me a little comfort to know that a few people out there like what we’re doing here. My development time isn’t a zero sum game, I didn’t steal 30 minutes from my “writing code” time to setup that page. I need to enjoy myself while I work, maybe doing that helped me get through that particular day. At the other end of the tubes is me, a person. Hi. Nice to meet you.

On that personal note it isn’t nice to be blasted for something as cursory as not initiating topics in the forums for two months. I’ve been contributing to bbPress for almost two years now. There have been times when I’ve taken close to the full burden of support here, even before I worked for Automattic. Recently we got two community moderators who are very competent. _ck_ and chrishajer have been outdoing themselves around here. I have taken it a little easier for the past month while I focused on some other tasks.

I’m really only catching up on some of the more recent goings on around here, including your very interesting threads about the overall direction of bbPress. I completely want those conversations to happen, you make good points there too and I like the general direction of what you are saying, even though you make incorrect assumptions about some details. I wish I had been there in real-time to discuss it, but I will try to respond where I can.

Finally, bbPress is important to Automattic at the moment primarily as a tool for it’s own uses. Thus there is little or no promotion of it at this stage. If we gain some traction in the real world one day it might be treated like WordPress, but for now it will basically be whatever the people who contribute to it want it to be, and as usual when resources are limited, those who can write good bug reports or contribute real code will get their needs met first.

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

How is repeating that you’re not happy with integration, that it doesn’t work, that it fails, over and over again helping?

Ticket #1007 has been opened, by SAM and that means developers agree. It is highest priority and flagged as critical. So look, they know, they agree, and they’re working on it. Can they tell you how long it will take? No. And instead of doing what my office tries to make me do (make up an answer) they gave you the truth. It will take as long as it takes. If that doesn’t work for you, then you should move on to something else. Because those are your options, unless you want to write the code yourself and offer it up.

There are a lot of tickets (see https://trac.bbpress.org/report/1 ) and a small amount of coders. If you want to (and can) fix bugs, fix bugs. If you can only report on them, report. But once the report is there, badgering the techies to be smarter faster doesn’t help anyone. It pisses off the techs who are trying, but honestly, you can’t inspire creativity any faster than it naturally comes

So thank you for reporting that integration sucks, and that the website implies something that isn’t exactly true – bbPress .9 works with WP 2.6, but it’s not full integration. That should probably be modified to say ‘shared login’ or such. There’s a ticket up for fixing real integration, so that is something that the dev team is aware of.

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

You could probably do it with RSS. If you’re using wordpress, you can do this (I have it as a sidebar widget).

<?php require_once (ABSPATH . WPINC . '/rss-functions.php');

$today = current_time('mysql', 1);

// insert the feed URL here

$rss = @fetch_rss('http://www.domain.com/forums/rss');

if ( isset($rss->items) && 0 != count($rss->items) ) {

// set the number of items from the feed to display (6)

$rss->items = array_slice($rss->items, 0, 5);

foreach ($rss->items as $item ) {

echo '<h1>';

echo wp_specialchars($item['title']);

echo '</h1>';

echo '<p>';

echo wp_specialchars($item['description']);

echo <a href="';

echo wp_filter_kses($item['link']);

echo '">(Read More)</a>';

echo '</p>';

}

}; ?>

The main (all posts) RSS feed is: http://www.domain.com/forums/rss

All subsequent forums (fori?) are: http://www.domain.com/forums/rss/<whatever&gt;

Like this subforum would be: https://bbpress.org/forums/rss/forum/plugins

This page would be: https://bbpress.org/forums/rss/topic/forum-exporter-plugin

If you don’t have wordpress, look into MagpieRSS

[kevinjohngallagher]

I’m really disappointed in this response actually. _CK_ is without a doubt the person who carries the most weight around here these days given her exceptional and continued support and development.

Whenever we, as a community or an individual, say something that is negative about BBpress it is because we want to make it better. You said yourself in October that Sam wasn’t on the forums much, and as time goes on, mostly because of wordpress moving forward, BBpress has looked more and more stale/abandoned. I appreciate it’s a perception rather than reality, but surely you can see by the response that Sam’s first post in months was met with this reaction, is down to that feeling that’s been growing in the community for months now.

Its not an attack on Sam, as a person, in anyway. It not an attack on BBpress or its code, its people who read one thing (or multiple things) and then find them out to be not true. its people who read new posts daily about “wordpress integration”

“I’m not sure how many more times I can repeat that bbPress is pre-release software.”

We know this, we don’t expect everything to work, we expect bugs, and we’re trying to report them back and be helpful. But we’ve been reporting 1 particular ind crucial bug back for over half a year now, with no info being forthcoming.

“Every part of bbPress is subject to completely change and break overnight”

We get this too. But, um, it broke over half a year ago!

If it broke last night, last week, or last month then yeah i’d get it.

But it broke a long long time ago.

“there are no feature or bug priorities”

Sam said there is (read up).

You said there was last month (about XMLRPC – will find link to post).

“If that bothers anyone, or they feel the need to rant about it, please stop using it asap”

TO Be Honest, that sounds childish in my opinion.

And not what i’d expect _CK_.

“Integration is tricky because it was not a priority for bbPress”

It wasn’t? wow.

Ok, it wasn’t. Can we ask why?

Again, it seems like the most asked about thing on the forum. Not just in terms of how often people ask, or that fact that there is a sticky on it, or that it’s the biggest word on the tag cloud by miles or… (i could go on, but i think we all know the point i’m getting at).

“there is no such thing as a “standard” wordpress install”

Yes there is. Download wordpress. input your database and password. hit install.

Famous 5 min install remember.

There is a standard wordpress install!

“The radical changes to WordPress security in the past year have not helped at all with integration ease”

We get that _CK_, we do, and we totally understand.

But the change happened in WP2.6, then we had 2.6.1, 2.6.2 , 2.6.3 . 2.6.5, and now 2.7.

BBpress / Automattic have had 7 month (minimum) to realise and fix this issue.

I mean, and correct me if i’m massively wrong, but did security change in 2.6, or did it change drastically in every release? If it changed drastically in 2.6, 2.6.1, 2.6.2 , 2.6.3 . 2.6.5, and now 2.7; then yes i can see how that would be a huge issue and a moving target. but if it has stayed the same for 6 months (in all the WP2.6 releases) then frankly, it seems crazy to me that NO-ONE at automatic can be asked how security has changed.

“So weigh your options and either stick with it or move on but please don’t rant against the very people trying to help the project”

We’re not ranting against the people _CK_, there is nothing personal here.

We want to help.

We want to use BBpress, spread the word, fix bugs, make it better.

But with this HUGE issue over our heads, we can’t, and thats what we’re trying to put across.

[_ck_]

Facebook just needs to offer OpenID like everyone else, not yet another proprietary standard.

The OpenID plugin for bbPress is nearly finished, I have an early working version, just need to finish the new account code.

Someone wrote a Facebook OpenID gateway somewhere, can’t find it at the moment.

[_ck_]

Remember that 1.298 is the page generation time on the server side, not the transmission time.

Depending on how slow their server is, the transfer could take another full second.

Then each script needs another query and turn around and render time.

I’m showing a page load to ready time of 3.6 seconds on my Firefox when the page generation time was 0.6 seconds. So 3 seconds to transfer is not good on broadband.

I’d start with the load_options switch I posted above and the script removal.

GoDaddy might actually be complaing about the excessive queries which will be fixed with the load_options.

[chrishajer]

@lyrics, it’s not possible with ANY version right now that I know of.

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Facebook_Connect

Sounds like it could work as a plugin, but I haven’t heard of one yet. This topic was the first I heard of it in relation to bbPress.

[chrishajer]

_ck_ – I doubt a visitor is complaining about either 1.298 - 35 queries or 0.489 - 35 queries – that’s not enough for people to complain. I could be wrong, and the performance tips are good, but I doubt this falls into the range of horrible for a forum visitor. Loading Adsense and Analytics takes more time than that.

[_ck_]

More can be found on bbPress.org under certain tags:

https://bbpress.org/forums/tags/localization

https://bbpress.org/forums/tags/translation

https://bbpress.org/forums/tags/internationalization

https://bbpress.org/forums/tags/i18n

https://bbpress.org/forums/tags/i8n

[_ck_]

testing:

bbPress is the #1 forum software for do-it-yourselfers

+ should maybe be {3,8} instead

backticks:

bbPress is the #1 forum software for do-it-yourselfers

nope, still broken in backticks.

testing some more:

Joe User

100 Main Street Suite #17

Anywhere, USA

nope In fact it removed the space between Suite and #17

[trac=123]see this ticket[/trac] or [trac]123[/trac] would be better.

Or just copy the entire url out of trac once you’ve looked up the number anyway.

[_ck_]

Please see the other dozen “when will 1.0 be ready” topics.

bbPress 1.0 will absolutely, most certainly, not be done this year.

1.0 has many internal changes from 0.9 and several complete code rewrites on some functions and has many bugs.

Do not use the alpha on live sites.

[_ck_]

I’m not sure how many more times I can repeat that bbPress is pre-release software.

Automattic isn’t making a dime off it, it’s not being promoted, there’s no guaranteed support, all assistance, plugin development is completely voluntary. Every part of bbPress is subject to completely change and break overnight. There is no timetable, there are no feature or bug priorities. Assume you will be on your own.

If that bothers anyone, or they feel the need to rant about it, please stop using it asap and go get SMF – I am completely serious about that. I’ve sent several people about here to vbulletin where money was no object and they could afford it and all the extra hardware it requires when they grow. It has every feature you could possibly want after 10 years of development and all the bloat and price tag to prove it.

If you want forums directly integrated with WordPress and don’t like bbPress, you can go use one of the several discontinued single-developer plugins available for WordPress. They are all slow and buggy and break with every wordpress upgrade, but there you go.

Integration is tricky because it was not a priority for bbPress in the first year or two and there is no such thing as a “standard” wordpress install, everyone has their own weird configuration. The radical changes to WordPress security in the past year have not helped at all with integration ease. Sam is going to try to make integration easier in a future version by creating a plugin for WordPress that assists with the process (in fact a WP integration plugin has now become a requirement because of some recent changes with WordPress).

I suspect bbPress will become much more of a priority for Automattic in 2009 but there’s no guarantee about that of course. So weigh your options and either stick with it or move on but please don’t rant against the very people trying to help the project.

[lyrics]

Logging on to bbPress through “facebook connect system” is possible in which version? Are we discussing with respect to version 9.0.3?

[_ck_]

Another performance tweak that will help with the end user’s page loading times (but won’t reduce that queries - time report for the page generation) is to remove the shedload of external javascripts that bbPress tries to load on many pages. Note that doing this will remove the ajax features but bbPress falls back to the conventional page-reload method instead so that’s okay.

Only admin can use most of the ajax features anyway so this is crazy that bbPress adds half a dozen scripts for everyone, including the bloated 100k jquery library.

This technique requires a mini-plugin unfortunately:

<?php

/*

Plugin Name: bb-tweaks

*/

// get rid of default forum scripts

remove_action('bb_head', 'bb_print_scripts');

?>

(I’ve never tried it but it might be possible to just put the single line

remove_action('bb_head', 'bb_print_scripts');

inside functions.php in the theme folder.

[_ck_]

1.298 - 35 queries is absolutely horrible actually.

However I only get 0.489 - 35 queries on that site which is barely acceptable.

It’s probably due to an overloaded shared hosting box.

Let’s review some basics.

First of all, let’s make sure you are using 0.9 and not 1.0

(If you are using 1.0 I can’t really help you much because it’s slower than 0.9 for now and I keep explaining to everyone not to use it but they do anyway)

Performance 101: (for everyone)

1. go into bb-config.php and add this line:

$bb->load_options = true;

2. after you add the above line, queries should be under 20 per page, usually less than 15 – if they are not, then you have a misbehaving plugin (or are running 1.0)

3. if you run your own server or VPS, turn on the mysql cache

4. if you run your own server or VPS, install a PHP opcode cache

(eaccelerator, APC or xcache)

5. if you are on shared hosting ask your host why they don’t use 3 and 4 and if they don’t give you a good answer, get a better host

GoDaddy is up there in like the top 10 for people who dislike their hosts.

Just google the number of people that have trouble with them on wordpress.

But unlike WordPress, bbPress doesn’t have any page cache plugins yet so if your host sucks in the first place, any large php program is not going to perform well.

[_ck_]

This is also straightforward to do, but I sure would like to know why someone would do such a thing.

You can’t mimic the post_position trick because no positioning is tracked by bbPress for topics. bbPress shouldn’t even use post_position anyway but it does it to accelerate the alternative looking up the position by date.

You’d have to do a mysql query that simulates the get_latest_topics but returns only topic_id’s and then find the position of the desired topic_id in the resulting array. Then you divide by number of topics per page and there’s your page number.

[_ck_]

It’s extremely easy to get forum <-> topic <-> post relationships in bbPress.

Depending on where you are, you may just be able to do a

global $topic,$bb_post;

Then $topic or $bb_post will have the following objects inside:

$bb_post

post_id

forum_id

topic_id

poster_id

post_text

post_time

poster_ip

post_status

post_position

$topic

topic_id

topic_title

topic_slug

topic_poster

topic_poster_name

topic_last_poster

topic_last_poster_name

topic_start_time

topic_time

forum_id

topic_status

topic_open

topic_last_post_id

topic_sticky

topic_posts

tag_count

You use it like this:

global $topic; echo "$topic->topic_title";

or to answer your original question:

global $bb_post; echo "$bb_post->forum_id";

Of course doing it this way bypasses any filters that may be in place from plugins but that may not matter if you are just trying to do something simple.

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

Yes functions.php works for bbPress.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Hi vannak,

If the forum you’re reffering to is the one linked to in your profile, then it seems to be running nicely.

If you like showing off the fact that your server rocks,

1.298 – 35 queries

That said, if you think it’s running slowly the best bet is to do a few things:

1) delete any plugins that you are not using (i know they shouldnt have any effect but always better to be safe than sorry, wordpress 2.6.1 had a similar bug)

2) deactivate plugins one at a time, and see if you notice any difference.

3) use Yslow to see what is taking the time to load from the front-end.

4) try disabling the adverts on the website. they shouldn’t have an effect, but sometimes Flash banners can do that (though they should only slow it down after the page has loaded)

5) Ask godaddy for the server logs and error logs, or ask them exactly what page/script is slow.

BBpress isn’t perfect, but the code is well written and generally very very fast.

[chrishajer]

bbPress could be slow depending on what plugins you have installed. You can use something like bb-benchmark to see where the delays are:

https://bbpress.org/plugins/topic/bb-benchmark/

A stock installation of bbPress has never been slow for me. It’s almost always shared hosting.

What *exactly* is slow on your forum? Can you post a link to the forum?

[John James Jacoby]

Hmm… This is a tough one, because it involves reverse engineering the query… To the best of what I can tell there isn’t anything in the core of bbPress that delivers this functionality…

Because topics are sorted by date, it would involve a custom query which is then divided by the number of threads you choose to display per page…

@the developers: Do bbPress themes accommodate for a functions.php file, similar to WordPress? This is the type of situation that a plug-in is a little bit much for, but would be perfect for an add on function.

[John James Jacoby]

Dear Santa,

For Christmas this year I would like bbPress 1.0 with working WordPress integration, and for daddy to find a job.

Love,

Little Johnny

---

@vannak: How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

The world, will never know.