[Greg]

[this is probably directed more at JJJ and Pete than anyone else]

With BuddyPress and now bbPress as plugin, does WordPress have an architectural direction for plugins that extend other plugins.

Or perhaps the right way to think about this is plugin dependencies. I see this discussion in WP trac where the consensus seems to be that plugin dependencies should be handled by sub-plugin developers with the neat approach Mark Jaquith suggests there.

This is beautiful in its simplicity, but a little unfriendly to the ordinary user installing a bbPress plugin without bbPress-as-plugin installed and activated.

Is Mark’s approach the plan for bbPress as plugin, or has the thinking evolved since this discussion 6 months ago?

[alieneila]

Though I have Akismet installed on the bbpress forum, I keep getting tags added that are showing up in the Hot Tags without being even added to any posts. I found that the only way to remove them is by removing them directly from the database. Is there any kind of filter for hot tags spam and any plugin to remove hot tags from the admin panel?

[Mark McWilliams]

_ck_: Well, multiple BLOGS, I am not sure if they can get multiple forums going on the first version, we’ll see. But I am sure it’s a goal of Matt’s so they can use it on WordPress.com

I’m not sure how they couldn’t get it going, but I sure do think it’ll be on the list!

Even if it doesn’t make the first version, it’s going to be put in there not long after. At the end of the day, that’ll be a major ”selling” point when it comes to people using bbPress (IMHO!)

[willcrain]

I am using the bbpress integration plugin to sync my wp and bbpress site up for users to login/logout.

I am having some issues getting my front-page login to work the way that i want it to. Currently (complete code and file setup at bottom) when i try to login initially i have the fields:

Community Login or [link – Register] – [link -Lost Password?]

[field – username] [field – password] [btn – login]

when i input the username and password and hit login it shoots me to the login page where i need to do this again in doer to login.

currently i have this code attributed to my login button:

<input type="image" src="<?php bb_option('uri'); ?>my-templates/discussion_center/images/top_login_btn.png" width="67" height="23" alt="Submit Form" value="<?php _e('Login');?>" />

i am guessing thats where the issue lies with that. i would like it to NOT go to another page and to just log in right there.

Next, after i am logged in the set up is like this:

Welcome back, username!

[link – View your profile] [link – logout]

the logout link seems to work, logging me out of my bbpress install, but it doesnt log me out of my wp install… any fix for that?

i added the cookies line to the wp-config.php for the plugin, am i supposed to add it to the bb-config.php too?

Thanks for the help in advance!!!

<b>In my header.php ::</b>

---

<?php login_form(); ?>

<?php if ( is_bb_profile() ) profile_menu(); ?>

<b>In my logged-in.php ::</b>

---

<div id="loginreg" class="clear">

<span id="welclogout"><?php printf(__('Welcome back, %1$s!'), bb_get_current_user_info( 'name' ));?>

<p>

Use the links below to manage your account.

<?php echo bb_get_profile_link('View your profile'); ?>

<?php bb_admin_link( 'before= | ' );?>

<?php bb_logout_link(); ?>

</p>

</span>

</div>

<b>in my login-form.php ::</b>

---

<div id="loginreg">



<p>Community Login or <?php printf(__('Register'), bb_get_option('uri').'register.php')?> - Lost Password?</p>



<form method="post" name="loginform" id="loginform" action="<?php bb_option('uri'); ?>bb-login.php">



<div class="left">

Username

<input type="text" name="log" id="user_login" class="text input" value="<?php if (!is_bool($user_login)) echo $user_login;?>" size="20" tabindex="10" />

</div>



<div class="center">

Password

<input type="password" name="pwd" id="user_pass" class="text input" value="" size="20" tabindex="20" />

</div>



<div class="right">

<input name="remember" type="hidden" id="remember" value="forever" tabindex="90" />

<input name="re" type="hidden" value="<?php echo $re; ?>" />

<?php wp_referer_field(); ?>

<input type="image" src="<?php bb_option('uri'); ?>my-templates/discussion_center/images/top_login_btn.png" width="67" height="23" alt="Submit Form" value="<?php _e('Login');?>" />

</div>

</form>

</div>

[Greg]

Hmmm. Seems that even the mod is hijacking threads on bbpress.org these days…

Feel free to start a different thread to talk about the specific performance aspects of bbPlugin versus bbStandalone.

One more attempt to focus this thread on the original question: I am interested in a discussion on the relative merits of evolving bbStandalone and bbPlugin independently versus in a coordinated fashion, NOT the relative merits of bbStandalone versus bbPlugin.

Repeating the advantages of both, with one additional pro that I thought of for the coupled roadmap.

Advantages of a coupled roadmap:

– Higher quality for standalone (benefitting from the larger installed base of the plugin)

– Better performance for the plugin (benefitting from the big standalone sites)

– More tight WP integration is likely for standalone

– Easier “cross-grades” between plugin and standalone version

Advantages of independent evolution of the plugin and standalone versions

– More flexibility in release roadmap for both versions

– No compromises for either version

[willcrain]

I am using the bbpress integration plugin to sync my wp and bbpress site up for users to login/logout.

I am having some issues getting my front-page login to work the way that i want it to. Currently (complete code and file setup at bottom) when i try to login initially i have the fields:

Community Login or [link – Register] – [link -Lost Password?]

[field – username] [field – password] [btn – login]

when i input the username and password and hit login it shoots me to the login page where i need to do this again in doer to login.

currently i have this code attributed to my login button:

<input type=”image” src=”<?php bb_option(‘uri’); ?>my-templates/discussion_center/images/top_login_btn.png” width=”67″ height=”23″ alt=”Submit Form” value=”<?php _e(‘Login’);?>” />

i am guessing thats where the issue lies with that. i would like it to NOT go to another page and to just log in right there.

Next, after i am logged in the set up is like this:

Welcome back, username!

[link – View your profile] [link – logout]

the logout link seems to work, logging me out of my bbpress install, but it doesnt log me out of my wp install… any fix for that?

i added the cookies line to the wp-config.php for the plugin, am i supposed to add it to the bb-config.php too?

Thanks for the help in advance!!!

<b>In my header.php ::</b>

---

,

<?php login_form(); ?>

<?php if ( is_bb_profile() ) profile_menu(); ?>

‘

<b>In my logged-in.php ::</b>

---

,

<div id=”loginreg” class=”clear”>

<span id=”welclogout”><?php printf(__(‘Welcome back, %1$s!’), bb_get_current_user_info( ‘name’ ));?>

<p>

Use the links below to manage your account.

<?php echo bb_get_profile_link(‘View your profile’); ?>

<?php bb_admin_link( ‘before= | ‘ );?>

<?php bb_logout_link(); ?>

</p>

</span>

</div>

,

<b>in my login-form.php ::</b>

---

,

<div id=”loginreg”>

<p>Community Login or <?php printf(__(‘Register‘), bb_get_option(‘uri’).’register.php’)?> – Lost Password?</p>

<form method=”post” name=”loginform” id=”loginform” action=”<?php bb_option(‘uri’); ?>bb-login.php”>

<div class=”left”>

Username

<input type=”text” name=”log” id=”user_login” class=”text input” value=”<?php if (!is_bool($user_login)) echo $user_login;?>” size=”20″ tabindex=”10″ />

</div>

<div class=”center”>

Password

<input type=”password” name=”pwd” id=”user_pass” class=”text input” value=”” size=”20″ tabindex=”20″ />

</div>

<div class=”right”>

<input name=”remember” type=”hidden” id=”remember” value=”forever” tabindex=”90″ />

<input name=”re” type=”hidden” value=”<?php echo $re; ?>” />

<?php wp_referer_field(); ?>

<input type=”image” src=”<?php bb_option(‘uri’); ?>my-templates/discussion_center/images/top_login_btn.png” width=”67″ height=”23″ alt=”Submit Form” value=”<?php _e(‘Login’);?>” />

</div>

</form>

</div>

,

[deadlyhifi]

The plugin is Add bbPress Default Role. It’s three lines of code so you may be better just writing it into your functions.php file.

[_ck_]

<cite>ashfame</cite>

I guess all your plugins are tagged https://bbpress.org/plugins/tags/_ck_

right?

And I believe even your updated plugins support 0.9 ?

Unfortunately the plugin section is still broken and does not import tags so the _ck_ tag is no longer complete there (update: someone appears to have fixed it in the past 24 hours)

For now this is the only way to find them all:

http://bbshowcase.org/forums/topic/_ck_-plugin-catalog-index

Virtually 100% my plugins will support 0.9 (except ones specifically made to “fix” 1.x)

<cite>Mark McWilliams</cite>

Not with WordPres 3.0 anyway, 1 install, multiple sites!

Well, multiple BLOGS, I am not sure if they can get multiple forums going on the first version, we’ll see. But I am sure it’s a goal of Matt’s so they can use it on WordPress.com

[_ck_]

WordPress today cannot run a live site without caching.

You’ll get kicked off any shared hosting in a heartbeat.

This is a HUGE regression because there are times when a page cannot be cached. I was looking at mashable the other day – it uses over ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY queries per page. It would be slaughtered without a super dooper amount of caching.

But bbPress 0.9 is fully capable of taking loads without any caching at all. I know of a few large sites that use it without any caching, it just doesn’t need it if properly configured until you get to slashdot level loads.

So in what fantasy world does anyone believe that adding the load of bbPress as a plugin to WordPress’s existing burden will ever make it faster than 0.9 ?

WP 3.0 already requires the increase of PHP’s default memory allocation per instance (over 32M in some cases). bbPress 0.9 runs in less than 1M (with a whole bunch of plugins at that).

If being more attractive to the WP masses was important, what should have been done is a project to make standalone bbPress’s integration with WP easier. Perhaps mimic WP’s template actions, etc. so WP templates could be used with less modification.

But like backPress, I’m afraid it’s probably too late.

I’m not saying this to be mean Matt, but the reality is Automattic is becoming a one-hit-wonder with everything being folded back into WordPress.

(and if a bbPress as plugin with WordPress backend goes down for any reason, failed upgrade, security hit, etc. now so will your forum)

[slee]

Thanks for the info I see ill be having some fun getting all this to work over he next few days.

Can you tell me the plugin names of the plugins you mention?

Many thanks

[Mark McWilliams]

_ck_: As far as I could guess, you’d have to install multiple copies of WP.

Not with WordPres 3.0 anyway, 1 install, multiple sites!

[Erlend]

@Ryan: I had JS enabled but.., aha, I never noticed the double-click edit upon mouse hover before. Neat

Now, the thing I encountered in both the P2 theme and Justin’s forum plugin is: Neither (seems to be able to-) take advantage of WordPress’ own in-built rich text editor.

I probably did not make this clear enough in my first post. My main point sort of ended up in the second to last paragraph:

What I’d love to see is rich front-end editing based on the native WP editor

What I’m inquiring about is:

How to achieve front-end editing with WordPress’ native rich editor?

The main question is of course ‘how will bbPress go about doing this?’, but clearly this method is still unbeknown to many plugin authors who could greatly benefit from it.

(Disclaimer: My project relies on the bp-wiki plugin, and I am indeed curious as to the possibility of a a more conventional approach to rich front end edits in the future.)

One ‘almost’ example I found is this one:

https://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/tinymce-excerpt/

It grabs the native editor and displays it somewhere new. However I suspect it can only do so because it’s still within the confines of the admin backend. Posting and editing content from front-end can clearly be achieved, but apparently with severe limitations. It’s getting functions that are normally limited to the backend (tinymce editor, file upload, etc) to the front-end that is awkward.

Speaking of which, feasibility image/file uploads would make for an excellent follow-up question, but maybe you’d rather have me start a new thread for it?

[Erlend]

Alright, appreciate the response. I think we’ve exhausted this discussion then

[r-a-y]

The alternative is to block bbPress registration and redirect to WordPress’ registration page.

[Ashish Kumar (Ashfame)]

I doubt if performance of bbPress as a plugin can ever proved to be better than a standalone version of 0.7-0.9

Any comments on the scalability of 0.7-0.9 branch?

[johnhiler]

“I am supremely interested in the performance aspects and confident we can make the plugin scale better than bbPress does today or did in the 0.7-0.9 line.”

I would be really amazed if this came to pass! WordPress leaves quite a footprint, so adding plugins to the mix would seem to increase that even more?

That said, I’m definitely excited to see how you increase performance and scalability!

[Matt Mullenweg]

Just for the record, as someone who runs several large bbPress installs with millions of posts between them, I am supremely interested in the performance aspects and confident we can make the plugin scale better than bbPress does today or did in the 0.7-0.9 line.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Non-plugin bbPress development is going to continue until we have a perfect importer so people will be able to bring their content out of the legacy codebase.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Check out how P2 does front-end editor, it’s even slicker than bbPress. Actually check out a bunch of the features of P2 like the real-time post updating, etc.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Since the stated roadmap for whatever is going to be called “bbPress” and live at bbpress.org is to build on the success of WordPress if you disagree with that direction it’s probably best to fork at that time.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Plugin directory is broken in a bunch of ways, might take a few to fix.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Greg, I think we agree, just have different ideas about where that line is drawn. I’ve laid out the core philosophy as a framework for discussions above. I have never advocated making every plugin a core feature, and conversely I doubt you’re suggesting making every line of code in bbPress a plugin.

Balancing between the two is how development happens, and is best navigated in the context of a specific anchor (feature) rather than in abstract.

[Greg]

I can see strong arguments for both a wp plugin and a standalone forum.

Also, the reality is that both will exist in the future. The WP team is very passionate about “bbPress as plugin” and at the same time some existing large installations will see to the continuation of standalone version in some format.

So it might be good to frame this decision differently than plugin versus standalone… The real question is: to what extent do we want the plugin and standalone versions of the bbPress code base to evolve independently versus in a coordinated way?

Simplistically, the two options are:

1. coupled roadmap with coordinated releases or periodic rev/fwd integrations

2. independent roadmaps that diverge over time (the current plan of record)

Both options (coupled roadmap and independent roadmap) can work, but it would be better for this decision to be the result of thoughtful discussion.

To kick things off, here are some pros of a coupled roadmap:

– Higher quality for standalone (benefitting from the larger installed base of the plugin)

– Better performance for the plugin (benefitting from the big standalone sites)

– More tight WP integration is likely

And some pros of independent evolution of the plugin and standalone versions

– More flexibility in release roadmap for both versions

– No compromises for either version

Another more subtle effect to consider is the impact on dev resources invested in the code base. For example, I think that there are currently a lot of “silent” but significant resources being invested in standalone bbPress development. It would be great to pull more of that work into the official project, but I fear that opportunity will go away once the move is made to “bbPress as plugin”.

[deadlyhifi]

This is entirely possible. You’ll need to do the integration thing to get the common cookies for login, etc. There are plenty of posts on how to do that so do a search and a read and have an experiment with that.

You’ll need to consider that both WP and bbP have a registration screen and user account page. As you want to allow blog creation I presume you’ll want to let WP handle the registrations, but you’ll need an element of the bbP user screen for forum activity history.

If you have registration though WP you’ll need to make sure that bb_capabilities is set in the wp_usermeta table when they register. There is a plugin for that.

Facebook connect will be a WP plugin so affects the WP signup process, as long as the bb_capabilities, as mentioned above, are set it doesn’t matter how their account was created – standard WP registration or otherwise.

I hope that makes sense. Start by getting the integration working, then remove the bbP signup page. Provide links to the user’s forum history/favourites page, and make sure bb_capabilities is set when registering through WP.

Good luck.

[_KB_]

ok kevinjohngallagher, I’ll wait, till then I’ll try for new integration with no “www”.