Thats what “worries” me, the plugins wont be compatible but will the images show up? If the plugin is not present will the images work? They’re uploaded to bbpress folder so im thinking that as long as they are there they will show up even if the plugin is not there.
Some dark times (or not) are coming for bbpress, i’m not sure if i’m the only one asking these questions when looking for a forum script/plugin.
I think from a user prespective we all ask ourselves these questions but there’s no info on bbpress future.
I like bbpress but i can´t see it on a medium/long term prespective, am i worrying to much about these questions?
Can't access the dashboard
There are lots of topics that deal with this very problem. Just click on the integration tag and read.
The work around seems to be log out of WordPress then log in to bbPress when you want to administer bbPress.
None of my plugins (or any others) will be compatible with the next version of bbPress (1.2 or 2.0 or whatever they are going to call it to confuse people).
Also, none of the existing themes.
Basically think of the next version of bbPress as another program entirely that they just insist on calling bbPress anyway.
Another question… take for example CK’s image upload plugin, wiil the images show up on future bbpress versions even if the plugin is discountinued?
Also will the permalink structure remain in future versions? i know search engines adapt to it but links from other sites will end up in a 404 error page…outside links still go to the forum but not the right page.
Well I don’t want to discourage his initiative, it’s a great idea.
I just think a better tool then apachebench needs to be written.
Basically I’d want to see a simulated load with logged in users being served different content – ie. unread posts for different users
and most importantly, I’d want to see new posts generated (or existing posts edited) that force content caching to be defeated.
If bbPress 0.9 had been finished instead of all that all wasted coding energy Sam was forced into porting it to backpress, we’d definitely have some content caching by now.
But plugins can still do content caching themselves. For example I realized awhile back that the Hot Tag cloud that bbPress renders is taking at least 1/4th of the total page render time, and it does it each and every time, regardless if there are new tags added or deleted. So my Hot Tags Plus plugin caches the tag cloud as static html (as well as add many other features to it at the same time).
@ Chrishajer
Thanks for your advices
@ Fernando
About the localization, bbpress (1.02) its not available in Portuguese (Portugal), i wanted to translate just the “bits” that the user sees, ive tried poedit but its take time as i cant copy all strings from the “original area” to the “translated area” with one click, need to copy paste one by one, i installed glotpress and it copied all strings as i wanted with one click… all i have to do is edit the ones i want (what the user sees)
Off topic:
one question about glotpress….how can i change the admin password? I couldnt find any reference on how to do it, i wanted to make “my glotpress” available to anyone to contribute but without changing the password anyone can login as a admin and erase all the work done. Anyone know how to change the admin password on glotpress from the default one?
Thanks to everyone for your advices
the new blog tables is just left as it is, you can delete that if you want.
you can even specify the user tables to be used while installing.
this is how it is done in wp-config.php –
define('CUSTOM_USER_TABLE','new_user_table');
define('CUSTOM_USER_META_TABLE', 'new_usermeta_table');
those two lines should be in that WP whose user tables you want to change.
like my initial has a wp_ prefix, then in the new installation, which has something different (lets say wp1_ or anything), put the lines in wp-config.php
define('CUSTOM_USER_TABLE','wp_users');
define('CUSTOM_USER_META_TABLE', 'wp_usermeta');
quick ‘n’ dirty test: ab -c 20 -n 1000
bbpress 1.1
. min mean[+/-sd] median max
Total: 46 458 117.9 453 1250
bbpress 0.9 (with $bb->load_options=true;)
. min mean[+/-sd] median max
Total: 46 275 90.6 265 890
453ms vs 265ms (or 458 vs 275)
So, I’d expect I’d see around a 50% improvement on your box on 0.9
now – vs static cache content simulation:
bbPress 0.9 front page html saved as static.php
and <?php $test=1; ?> put at top to force PHP parser to turn on
. min mean[+/-sd] median max
Total: 15 75 14.3 78 109
So 265ms vs 78ms
bbPress 0.9 is “only” 187ms slower than statically served PHP.
In a nutshell:
. min mean[+/-sd] median max
bbpress 1.0: 46 458 117.9 453 1250
bbpress 0.9: 46 275 90.6 265 890
static PHP 15 75 14.3 78 109
Actually the PHP version kinda proved my point about content caching.
It’s taking 3-4 ms.
The front page index on most of those forums is taking 20-25ms
That’s impossibly fast, it definitely means content is not being regenerated. If the cache was defeated it would have to re-render the whole thing and the page time would be significantly higher.
bbPress doesn’t even save the tag cloud between pages, it will re-render it each and every time, which is at least 1/4th of the page render time (that can be changed via a plugin).
So you aren’t testing renderer-vs-renderer, you’re testing content caching vs content caching. You aren’t even testing for logged-in users but only outside visitors.
If we are going to play that game, all someone has to do is port wp-super-cache to bbpress and it will beat every forum in existence, because static html will be served via htaccess directly and bypass PHP/MySQL entirely. So you’d be down to 4ms (or less) per page.
In any case, I am looking forward to seeing how 0.9 does against 1.0 under 20 concurrency.
I just ran some tests, with an html file and a php file, both containing “Hello World”. You can find the apache bench results here: http://pastebin.ca/1934137
Clearly they are much faster than any forum software, handling 5000+ and 9000+ requests per second each (I had to run apache bench with 100,000 hits to get a semi accurate reading)
As for a write once, read many times situation, blogs do exhibit such behavior more so than forums, I’ll admit. However, forums are certainly more read heavy than write heavy.
Take a look at phpBB.com’s support forum, http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewforum.php?f=46 . You will be hard pressed to find a topic without at least 5 times as many views as posts, and many of the sticky topics have over 100 times as many reads as posts. Show me any forum with more writes than reads and I will be impressed.
I’ll be running bbpress 0.9 later tonight, along with some changes to SMF that they suggested.
From my reading, we agree that 1.0 might not be a good choice for an admin when looking purely at performance, and based on your phrasing 0.9 may not be either (“bbPress 0.9 should be about halfway between the 1.x and other forum software”).
However, I will still post the apache bench output from a static file, and I will make that adjustment to the bb-config file.
I have tried integration between WordPress 3.0.1 and bbPress 1.0.2 and needless to say, everything went well except this:
If I log into WordPress, I’m not automatically logged into bbPress, I would have to log in separately.
Now, conversely, if I log into bbPress first, I’m not automatically logged into WordPress, but if I try to log into WordPress without logging out of bbPress, it won’t let me go in. The screen would still be the login screen… can anyone explain how to fix this?
I’m pretty sure it’s a problem regarding the cookies.
I also have the bbPress installed on a subdomain separate from the main domain where WordPress is hosted, I’ve done all the integration instructions mentioned by bbPress.org and also downloaded the integration Plugin for WordPress.
Your help is greatly appreciated. Thank You
P.S. If anyone knows the solution, would you also be able to know if if a similar problem would arise trying to integrate with BuddyPress as well? Thanks
I look forward to a static page for comparison on your graph.
It will prove what I am saying about content caching.
I have a test SMF install handy and I can see it uses less than a half-dozen queries on a 2nd page load which is a dead giveaway there is caching – I am sure every other 3rd gen forum package has it too. You have APC running and I know that SMF also takes advantage of that, so probably do others.
bbPress never got content caching because Matt keeps having the core re-invented every couple years (backpress and now as WP plugin) so we keep getting back to square one for advanced features. Don’t be confused by versions 0.9 is a different program than 1.0 and 1.2 is a completely different program than 1.0 or 0.9 (that’s Matt’s fault).
So I still insist this isn’t a fair comparison.
But bbPress 0.9 should be about halfway between the 1.x and other forum software (ie. 50% faster) 0.9 will be continued to developed independently, so it’s worth benchmarking.
If you are willing to put a couple of tweaks in the bb-config with 0.9 I think we can get a little closer to the rest of the pack at the bottom, ie.
$bb->load_options = true;
off the top of my head (note that does nothing in 1.0)
None of the software is serving data from a static page cache. Sure, they have various caching mechanisms, but all are retrieving their posts from the database on every page load, just as bbpress is.
I don’t have access to the server at the moment, but a based on my recollection (from accidental runs that resulted in 404 responses), it was able to handle several thousand requests per second to non-php based content, a magnitude more than any of the results I found. I’ll run a baseline tonight.
As for the previous post, I’d disagree. The majority of requests to a forum are going to be read requests, and they are the primary factor of site performance. If digg/slashdot/reddit links to your forum and the story becomes popular, the reads are going to kill your site, not the miniscule number of posts those guests will make.
I already know from my own benchmarks that 0.9 in many cases is 50% faster than 1.x, if only because it loads 50% less code, not to mention fewer queries out of the box.
But as nice of an ideas as it is, your benchmark really cannot compare apples to apples.
ALL the other forums you have listed already use a page cache, in part or whole, which is why they have such high numbers.
What your benchmark should do is attempt to DEFEAT any page caching the forum is doing by generating new posts BEFORE every page load.
ie. POST / READ / POST / READ / POST / READ / POST / READ
The next version of bbPress will very much need a page cache just like most buddypress sites desperately need as they are very sluggish (because of the WordPress core).
A few people have successfully deep integrated bbpress with wordpress and then used an exisiting wordpress page cache. That would give similar numbers to what you have posted for other forums.
actually i just integrated the forum to the old wordpress blog and it is back to normal. i guess i do want the old user table to be used for my new blog… can you point me in the direction of instructions on how to do that?
what happens to the new blogs user table?
tuluto, try logging out of WordPress and logging in through bbPress. Did it help?
You should have just linked the tables.
Are you saying that your original WP table is messed up?
If you have a backup, just restore that particular table and link the tables.
Linking tables mean telling the new WordPress to use a different user table.
Hi, I need to hire a bbpress developer who can create a plugin that allows someone to upload a thumbnail, for the topic. This will allow the user to upload a thumbnail after writing the topic. Once submitted.
The topics loop will also show a thumbnail of the topic next to the title etc etc.
So it becomes like an image board.
email me at sirwanqutbi @ gmail.com
I have a wordpress blog that integrates with bbpress well. I would like to integrate the bbpress with a different wordpress blog. The problem I had is that when I created the users in the new blog (I did manually b/c it seemed easiest with 40members) and then completed the integration it messed all the old forum posts up.
I assume that there is an identifier or id number in the user table that is used that got changed when I manually created the new user accounts?
How can I go about making this new blog integrate without losing the user to post relationship?
You mean when bbPress becomes a WordPress plugin? I don’t think there will be themes for bbPress at that point. More likely you would use a WordPress theme and could use a custom page template for forum pages, if you wanted.
But honestly, no one knows at this point. My feeling is that a lot of the overlapping functionality will be removed from bbPress once it becomes a WordPress plugin. No need for integration because you will already have access to WordPress functions. No need for themes because you will have access to all the WordPress theme functionality.
@ chrishajer
can i keep my bbpress theme with your mentioned plugin as it is, or does that mean i have to start over with my theme again?
thx
have you tried adding “bb-admin” to the end of your bbpress forum url? It might be that you’re using a custom bbpress theme that hasn’t got that option enabled on the theme.
try adding “bb-admin” and see if your wordpress login works.
