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Hi to all………..
I want to integrate bbpress with my existing working blog i.e. http://www.softinfo.info …. is it possible to integrate fresh bbpress to my working blog without reinstall wordpress?
also tell me what kind of database backup i need?
thank in advance!!
In an attempt not to derail the “1.1 Feature Poll” thread, I thought i’d cut and paste my comments from there into a new thread. Alot of people have been talking up Facebook Connect, but without actually saying what the benefit would actually be. So lets talk it out, so that people on both sides of the arguement, and those in the middle can make a balanced and reasoned deduction.
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I’m going to be using quotes from the lovely from the following threads:
http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/login-using-facebook-connect
http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/11-feature-poll
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“in this day and age people hate having to register a new user name and password for every single site”
I’m not in anyway meaning this in a disparaging way, but this is nonsense. Its the opposite. With email access alot easier now than 10 years ago, with email spam filters improved, with multiple-tabs per browser, with “the average user” used to having to sign into different websites – users are FAR more likely and used to signing up for services than they used to be.
There is a myth that techinical people, who are by far the largest percentage of forum users, project onto the average user; that the average user wants ultra dumbed-down-simplicity and a one-stop-shop coupled with also crazy interaction features.
Its a myth thats been doing the rounds since Flash 4 popped up, or when Flash 5 went really big, or when dHTML became popular or when AJAX became big etc. etc. And yet somehow, these new “omg my users NEED that kk” features all seem to be not quite as needed as we were told after a little while.
“Like it or not, FB is the big social-networking dog out there”
Agreed, totally; and i do like Facebook. But you miss my points mentioned here: http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/11-feature-poll#post-61894.
1) Nothing stays top dog forever. If we were having this discussion 2 years ago we would have been talking about MySpace, before that possibly MSN messenger signings, and defintely before that AoL signing. No-one has made a point about why we should develop something into the core of BBpress that is dependant on the popularity and propriety software of another company.
And lets not forget Facebook has only become the No.1 Social Networking site i the US this past year. MySpace was recieving more pageviews according to Alexa until Feb/March of this year. Maybe lets see if this lasts first? (who remembers AoL?)
Okurt, for example, while is run by google (yet not popular in the western world) is the second biggest social network. What if google pushes that so that it becomes No1. Should we then forget about Facebook Connect because its no longer No1 and demand a GoogleFriend plugin?
2) Facebook is popular only with a certain demographic. I’ve included links to the stats on my previous post, but the sheer percentage of people on facebook that are White, 15-25, High School Educated or higher, and from the Western World (mostly USA and Canada) is staggering. As it stands, creating a Facebook Connect plugin would (statistically) really only benefit White people from North America who had finished High School. Why should that be something that BBpress includes in its core?
“I think all our bbPress sites would see more interactions if FB connect could be used (optionally turned on or off)”
Awesome, what data are you basing this on?
3) If your focussing on the needs of your end user, then surely content should be king. If someone feels strong enough to take part in your discussion then not being able to log in from Facebook probably wont be an issue.
4) Lets say you offered Facebook Connect. The user clicked it, opened a popup that said “please type in your facebook username and password” – how many do you think would automatically do that? We’re constantly reminded to not give out usernames and passwords, and to look out for phishing websites etc etc. So if a user go to a website or forum, and wants to get involved in the conversation, but not enough to sign up, how likely is it that they’ll use FBconnect instead? Can you back this up with data from other forums or is it just anacdotal?
5) The service itself has been woefully rolled out by Facebook. Here’s a quote from Mark Z
“We’ve made a lot of mistakes building this feature, but we’ve made even more with how we’ve handled them. We simply did a bad job with this release, and I apologize for it.”
That was in February this year, and in that time, they’ve changed the API twice without telling any of the end users. Can you imagine, seriously, BBpress building something into its core that relied on another companies API not changing inbetween BBpress releases? We’d have to release a new version of BBpress everytime Facebook made a change to its API that broke the previous version – which btw, we’ve had 4 such incidents of this year!
6) Beacon. Not sure you know about this, but Beacon collected data from non-facebook websites you went to or linked to or signed into via FBconnect, sent the info to facebook so they could sell the info to advertisers. Yes, while you see the positives of a single sign in, its been used as a Big Brother spyware, or rather was, right up until the class action lawsuit that Facebook lost only 3 months ago – paying out 21million dollars. Orwellian doesn’t begin to cover it.
7) Facebook Connect != New users.
Lets scrap annacdotal Evidence and go with a real live website with stats availible on the internet.
Gizmondo, one of the founding partners of Facebook Connect almost 18 months ago has seen a steady increase of people using Facebook connect, At the start of December it found that circa.21000 page views were through FBconnect – thats just under double what that number was in March of this year. On its own, thats a big number, but the thing is, its roughly 0.6% of page views for the site.
http://statistics.allfacebook.com/applications/single/-/44615671688/
As popular an idea as FBconnect is, it’s still not that popular in reality. FBconnect gets loaded 50million times a month, a high number (almost 1.5% of facebooks monthly login); but this 50million actually includes every time a page loads with the FBconnect Javascript file, and doesn’t account in anyway for how often its actually used. It is *not* 50million logins with FBconnect a month!
http://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fbconnect.png
If we take Gizmondo as the average (for this example) – which its not, its slightly above average, in that it has technical people and early adopters using its site in a higher percentage, so these numbers should favour FBconnect.
Gizmondo gets roughly 3million page views a month with 700,000 unique visitors. Thats an average of 4.3 page views per person. Now FBconnect counted for 21000 page views at 4.3 pages per person equates to 4884 unique visitors that use FBconnect on one of the partner sites in which its had 18 months to promote the brand linking. Thats a massive uptake of FBconnect on a partner site – of tech savvy people no less – of… drumroll please… 0.7% (not a shock to anyone as i mentioned the figure above).
Do we really, really, think that this is something vital to having people competantly use a BBpress forum?
If 0.7% of your community on your website want to use FBconnect, how many actual people is that?
To put it in context, for every 1000 people that actually post on your forum, 7 will use FBconnect. Thats not 7 new posters, that 7 posters total. We’ve no idea how many of them are new.
So lets take it a step further, what percentage of that 0.7% are users who would not have created an account and signed in if it wasn’t for FBconnect? What if half of those 0.7% aren’t new users, what if half are people who prefer to use one sign-in. Will an increase in traffic of 0.35% really be worth all the time and hassle involved in getting BBpress (which cant even integrate with WordPress – its parent companies flagship product) to integrate with moving target badly run by another company?
Before you advocaate Facebook Connect, ask yourself these questions:
1) What sort of increase in numbers or percentage of posters would make this worth while to me?
2) Am sure that this is the best option for a global product, given that Facebook’s poularity is localised?
3) Am i suggesting a Feature that I myself want?
4) Does BBpress need this feature to actually funciton as a forum, as per the original remit – outlined here: http://bbpress.org/about/features/ ?
As someone who lives in a country where Facebook is 3rd or 4th favourite Social Network (it fluctuates), and just inside the Top 10 of websites visited, it always amazes me when people go overboard about it as if its the second coming. I like it and use it, but every time i ask someone to back up why they think BBpress needs FBconnect all we get is short annacdotal evidence based on their own desire, so lets get past that and have a nice conversation about it
Depends on where you’re hosting your site. If you’re running a free web host, then it most likely appends analytics code at the end of each page. The analytics system for most of these servers are very slow. If this is the case, add the following to your .htaccess file on the root of your public_html folder (if it does not exist, then you should create the file):
php_value auto_append_file none
php_value auto_prepend_file noneAlso, if your host (free or not) has ZLib compression enabled, you can add the following to your .htaccess file:
<ifmodule mod_php5.c>
php_value zlib.output_compression 16386
</ifmodule>That will compress the output of your site quite a bit.
My forum (http://www.inniosoft.co.cc/devstation) used to take longer than a minute to finish loading. After adding that, it is much quicker.
There are no plugins that I’m aware of that do this for bbPress, so the above implementation would be best for now.
Hope that helps a little.
The one thing I love on bbPress
The one thing I love on bbPress is: It is simple and fast. “Simple” means, its functionality is easy to understand and to use for a less experienced internet user and there are no features distracting from the one core thing in a forum, from that funny discussion thing. And “Fast” means, that the bbPress core is even faster than the rather minimalist PunBB on the virtual server I use bbPress on. These are the two “features” of bbPress I really want to see in the future.
The things I hate on WordPress
Following the current discussion reminds me on my own experience with the great WordPress blog software. I am a WordPress user since WP 1.5.x, and WP 1.5.x was the software making me a blogger. It was easy to use, had a clean and simple user interface for the blogger, could be extended easily and replaces my simple home-written system after one week of testing and comparing to s9y.
Now, I do hate my long ago decision for WP sometimes. The current WP version 2.8.x is bloated, slow and without a good caching plugin not well-suited for a blog with readers.
As an example, there is a tiny german blog filled by me and less frequent some other people. It is called “Blah”, and most of its postings are simply links to other internet resources, mostly political, conspirational and funny ones. Did I mention that the blog is called “Blah”?
It is not really a “successful” one, in the last six months there were approximately 2,000 visits per day, that’s not much. The “average visitor” requests five postings, and only one percent of them ever leaves a comment. The blog’s database contains 4,300 posts at the moment, that’s not much too. If I deactivate the WP Super Cache plugin, the server fails to handle that little load, the response time of the tiny blog grow to 30 to 50 seconds, the apache processes accumulates and finally the server runs out of virtual memory, giving visitors that funny “Out of memory” PHP error messages or a plain white page.This is a situation totally unwanted for a bulletin board, which is a highly dynamic kind of website that can not be cached as easy as the less frequent views of a blog.
From bbPress 0.9.x to 1.0.x, the number of database queries to view the same page has nearly doubled, and the execution time has grown by approximately 60 percent on the same server. From the user point’s of view, it was exactly the same page, and bbPress is at the moment still performant enough to be better than any other bulletin board software. But from my point of view it remembers me to the things I experienced again and again with many new WordPress versions in the past, reaching the current point of a blog, which isn’t made to have more than a handful of readers. But for a WP blog, I can work around with WP Super Cache, for forums this approach is nearly impossible.
Some words about readers
I’m looking at the statistics generated from the apache logfiles of the Blah-blog for the last six months. It is a blog in german language, and of course most readers are living in Germany, less in Austria or Suisse, some in the Netherlands, Danmark, Belgium, Poland, Russia or Hungary too. These are not readers from the so called “third world”. (There is only one world, and we all have to share it!) In the last six months, 19 percent of the Blah-blog readers used an old dial-up modem connection to access it. (Identified by the rather speaking hostnames given in germany for that kind of connection I can identify, there may be some more readers with a low-bandwidth connection.) For this fifth part of my readers (which may be a representative value for other websites in germany too, but most people seems not interested in this kind of information), every use of large JavaScript magic which has to be loaded via a low-bandwidth connection gives an impression of slowness, and this is something I do not want to give them. That’s a reason for the rather minimalistic design of this blog.
Let me compare that 19 percent to another statistical number for the Blah-blog. 12 percent of all readers uses that fu… fine Internet Explorer 6.0 for surfing. (Identified by the user-agent string, which may be faked in rare cases.) The IE 6 is an old and ugly browser with many problems and a CSS box model interpretation giving a good headache to designers, and there are much better browsers out for free. But in many cases it is unwanted to exclude that 12 percent of website users or to give them a totally trashed design experience. It is also amazing, how many people are still using Windows 98 or ME or even Windows NT 4.0. I assume these people use rather old computers, still working for their personal requirements, so they don’t want to throw them to waste. Yes, there are people out there, which are poor and simply cannot spend a few hundred euros for new hardware every few years — me too. These are people I don’t want to exclude from any website I maintain, and especially I don’t want to exclude these from pages about political or cultural subjects. Every kind of bloat is wrong in my point of view.
(I use bbPress for a small forum on an uncommercial artists’ webpage, and it is great for that. This usage is my reason why I’m maintaining an inofficial german translation of bbPress, there is simply no language file for German at the moment, and not to share this work is stupid.)
Some words about the dashboard
The current bbPress dashboard is fine, it is aesthetical appealing, easy to use (compared to other bulletin boards’ backends) and fast even via a low-bandwidth connection and on a not up-to-date computer. It can be used with all browsers, and it makes all administrative tasks easy. The current WordPress dashboard sucks. It is unuseable slow with the Opera browser, and even with other browsers needs an enourmeous transfer of data and an long initialization time before one can do that simple thing which is blogging: writing a new post. If someone uses an older computer (older than five years), it is unuseable with any browser, and it is unbelievable frustrating to use via a dialup connection. And no, that “Google Gears” stuff does not help.) The huge amount of features are overwhelming for an unexperienced user, and for the little artists’ site (with eight authors) I still have to help some people for every post they want to blog. Since I had to upgrade that site to WP 2.8.x (it used 2.0.x and 2.3.x for a long time), the other authors hate me. Some of them are poor people. I recommend the usage of BlogDesk for them, but sometimes there are tasks which cannot be done with BlogDesk, as deleting an unwanted idiot’s comment or declaring a post as sticky (to announce an action, happening, exhibition, sound vernissage, reading, party, etc.). Since WP 2.8.x, the posting frequency of some co-authors is reduced to zero, and if I had the possibility for it, I would create my own WordPress fork (a DietPress for people who wants blogging without bloat).
And this is the way bbPress should avoid, in my opinion.
The bbPress of the future I want
bbPress is great! The bbPress core is good, and the features in an out-of-the-box installation are enough in many cases. But of course, there are things that could be improved, and there are many features often missed by people who wants a bulletin board. The probaly most wanted features are (list may be incomplete)
- eMail notification for new posts
- A kind of bbCode, which meets better the standard people expect in a BB software
- An improved editor, helping the user to do the wanted markup (may be bloaty magic WYSIWYG, but even eight buttons with a little JavaScript are better than nothing for the inexperienced user)
- An internal system of personal messaging (I hate it, but others love it)
- Attachment of files to a post
- Perhaps an avatar system independent from Gravatar
- An easy to extend user profile with additional informations
- A “who is online now” display
- Counters how often a post has been read
- A “terms of usage” statement which is required to be accepted by newly registered users
- An extended search with criteria as forum, tag, date range, username. (The existing search is better than the WordPress search, but I can still be improved. In a support forum with ten thousands of topics, it would be good to have the accumulated information more “findable”.)
- An interactive (and plugin-extensible and i18nable) help system for all core bbPress features, explaining the bbPress usage to inexperienced users and the concepts they cannot understand directly, especially tags. This is something I haven’t seen in any other BB software, but it is something really needed. It may even contain some words about netiquette…
- Perhaps a “widget system” similar to WP as a simple way to modify the order of appearance of the displayed entities without editing in themes
And of course, bbPress must remain performant, non-bloated and easy to integrate with WordPress. That’s a lot…
Many of these frequently requested features are not a good “standard” functionablity.
- The eMail notification is fine for spammers too. I am registered in some boards with this “feature”, and from time to time someone registers, writes spammy posts to various topics and the BB software dutifully and reliable sends that spam to a lot of users, before a moderator can do something. That’s why I am deactivating it always — one day, I received more than 100 mails “from my favorite forum”… aaargh!
- An over-improved editor slows down the forum for people with old hardware and makes the forum unusable for blind people with their strange solutions for surfing. (Yes, some of my “readers” are blind.)
- Personal massaging is a poor reinvention of good old internet eMail that sucks. For someone active on various boards, he has to check it messages in many places, which is ugly.
- An extended user profile is exactly the thing spammers want. The links in approximately 5 percent of my eMail spam are going to user profiles in bulletin boards, which are misused in many ways.
- Every upload possibility to the server can be a security problem, can be used by spammers to put spammy graphics in the internet or can consume execessive hard disc space on the server if heavily used.
But of course these features are wanted in many cases.
We should have a bbPress slogan for all future development. My suggestion is: Let’s make simple things easy, and let’s make complex things possible.
Learning from that part of WordPress which sucks means: Doing it better in bbPress. The core system should kept as a small one, perhaps a little smaller than the actual core. (The current user profile is sometimes unwanted.) And all additional features should be implemented in plugins, that a forum administrator can activate and configure as needed.
Core Plugins
But plugins are a huge problem too. Using a plugin indenpendent from the core system means: Making the update of bbPress to a new version sometimes to a migraine upgrade, whenever the needed plugins do not work with the newer version. Sometimes, I have this problem with one of my sites based on WordPress. And if the plugin’s functionality does require editing in the themes, it excludes less-experienced forum-administrators with a lack of PHP knowledge from using the plugins, which is not exactly the way to make complex things possible.
So there should be a set of plugins which are part of the bbPress release, which are developed together with the core system, let’s call them “core plugins”. It is not required to activate them to have a simple and basic bulletin board, but if someone do so, he will never have problems with upgrades. The “core plugins” are guaranteed to be delivered and to work with every release version and every security fix ever released. We have this kind of “core plugins” already, bozo users and Akismet. But it is a concept to be extended. A better post editor, a “terms of usage” page, a PM system, an internal avatar system, attachments to posts and all the administrative stuff around these features are good candidates for “core plugins”. If someone does not need them, he does not activated them. But if someone activates them and only them, this will never make the next bbPress release to a upgrade hell.
There may be bbPress-tags which are implemented empty if a core plugin isn’t activated, to make it easy to program the default theme and any other theme independent from the activated set of “core plugins” and without that sucking lines of
if (function_exists ('bb_great_feature')) bb_great_feature ();. This kind of interface can be defined long before the “core plugins” are stable, and it can be documented for theme developers to allow them making their themes future-proof. (Oh yes, we need some good themes, the default one is fine, but some people want a richer selection.)The bbPress features eighty percent of people want can be implemented in “core plugins”. Simple things will be easy. And if someone wants a small bbPress, that’s easier, he simply does not need to activate any “core plugin”. And there is still a plugin interface which makes complex things possible — sometimes a little editing in themes is required, but most people never needs to do so.
That’s the way bbPress should go, in my opinion.
(It may be a way for the future of WordPress too. But that’s not the topic here, and the WP developers do their work for a huge community of users and simply cannot change earlier decisions easily.)
And excuse my english. My poetic german is much better… and shorter.
Wow, for some reason half of my post doesnt’ appear until i’m logged in. That can’t be good…
@grassrootsspa
Bloat of the code isn’t the Physical Size mate, its how well written the code is, how processor intensive it is, and how many Database queries it needs etc etc.
v1.0.2 with 0 plugins is about 150% more processor intensive than v0.9 with all my plugins running. On small sites it makes very little difference, on large sites it makes a heck of a difference.
The two websites i’ve upgraded to v1.0.2, simply did to having to upgrade WP on them, are far more processor intensive than all my other sites. Faaaar more. _CK_ had some really good stats on this before she left, which we now dont have access to, so i apologise for my annacdotal evidence.
My point was, not to nit-pick over your statement or get into a discussion about which specific features YOU and I want in the core (because that would vary from everyone else here), but merely to come to some form of concensus about how we should talk about what we all think BBpress needs.
I say this because, since BBprogress closed and i’ve tried to be more involved with the BBpress site again, i notice that people mix up Feature requests quite a bit. If i can again take your post:
“…private messaging, TinyMCE/rich text, topic views, Allow Images, Smilies, User Directory, Members Online, Related Topics, Reputation, Top Posters…”
Topic Views is a great example of something that is pretty bog standard in terms of user’s experience of forum software. X thread was viewed Y times and replied to Z times. Without adding much/any bloat to the forum software, you’re adding a feature any user from ages 1 to 100 could use without requiring interactivity.
Private messaging, Reputations, Rich Text Editors etc all work on the presumption that the average/most users want that. Experience tells us otherwise.
“Let’s make bbPress more robust in features so it blows vBulletin out of the water”.
I’m not sure why anyone else came to BBpress, so i dont want to presume. But there seems to be 2 camps, those that wanted totally customizable well written code with hooks in a way we were used to and those that came to BBpress because WP is awesome and easy to configure/download themes for and they wanted to create something as good as vBulletin but easier to control.
I’m quietly confident people in camp 1 are not fussed in the slightest about blowing “vBulletin out of the water”, because if it did, then i’d just have something along the same lines as vBulletin. Not wanting that is the reason i joine dup here in the first place, again thats just me.
People in camp 2, have a tendancy to want core Features to be things (while useful) that aren’t neccessary for forum software to fulfill its duty in the most efficient manner.
There’s nothing wrong with either opinion, but taking the fight to other forum software via cool features that on the whole are rarely used by the end user, is not in anyway the focus of BBpress.
It is good to see an old voice
You’re ofc right about fixing this website (in the first instance to remove all the wrong information), and the plugin section, but i’m going to say that documentation on functions is not something i’m too fussed about right now.
I think you’re right that, even with Matt taking over BBpress, we wont have a new release anytime soon, and as such this is BBpress’ most stable time in years to design theme’s and plugins. And yet, thats not happening.
With Sam’s moving on, and then then _ck_’s moving on, the project appeared (emphasis on appeared) to be shelved or forgotten about. Development has slowed to a crawl, and many sites that use BBpress are still choosing to use 0.9 (I know that both you and I are for the most part).
The realism is that 1.0.2 wasn’t seen to be a full on stable release by many, rather a rushed stop gap. This wasn’t helped at the time by _ck_’s negative comments about it (which i agreed with both at the time and now). It was largely rewritten between the 2nd and 3rd alpha, and beta testing was scrapped before it was released to us. 2 small bug fix released 1.0.1 and 1.0.2 and c.15 days later the main/only developer leaves town without saying anything. *tumbleweed*
Whatever Matt and the team do, it’ll need some serious project management, and some serious PR to get people beliving in the project again. Looks to me like he’s started both, which is wonderful, but i still doubt that many people will be up for documenting a version of BBpress that is likely to be replaced realtively soon – especially given how few plugin or theme developers there are for BBpress, and the sheer drop in numbers in comparison to how many there were a year ago.
Good night all and take care.
Michael Finally i got it…..
I use the following code… and listen …. wow its works
<iframe src =”contact.php” width=”500″ height=”700″>
</iframe>
I Just want to confirm…..should i continue to use this script or quit…. is this good or bad for me……..Thx
What’s the difference between this one and the older? Changelog?
My (fast) interpretation of this theme: http://forumemprego.net/ (a work/job discussion forum).
Thank you.
Agreed – very nice.
I specifically chose a theme (and edited it deeply) because it was clean, new, and the buttons are easy to find.
See what I mean: http://www.inniosoft.co.cc/devstation
Great job refeuled!
