[kevinjohngallagher]

An extremely, over exaggerated word that has been used to change the developmental focus of bbpress is Integration.

You’ve totally got this wrong bobtheman mate.

WordPress Integration is the most used phrase on this board, and the most used tag. It’s also a feature, listed in the features page. It’s also why alot of people came to this project. If it’s not something you want, cool, but it is something the majority want.

1. Single Signon

2. Single Theme

3. Admin panel they recognise

This is mostly what people want. We know this thanks to metrics, tags, being here for 2 years, and at least 50% of support requests fall into this category. At the end of the day it comes down to this:

If you don’t care about WordPress Integration use BBpress 0.9.

It’s awesome, fast, easy to theme, and miles better than the hatched testing ground for BackPress that 1.0.2 is.

If you do care about WordPress integration use BBpress 1.0.2

It’s ridiculously convoluted to set up, with more pitfalls than an Indiana Jones movie, but once working it’s ok.

If you don’t want BBpress to become a WordPress plugin, buy out Automattic. Or, and this is the biggie, give [the project owner] good objective reasons as to why it would be beneficial for them in the long run. Otherwise, you’re as well adding “Waaaaahhhhhhhhhh >.<” to the end of every sentence. Because that is what it sounds like to [the project owner].

To end this chapter of confusion and to get bbpress back on trac, on February 14 I propose a IRC meeting which will follow with a blog post of the results with a roadmap for the future

I know we’re all geeks, but cant we pretend like Feb14th might actually see us doing something else? I’m confident i’ll lose what’s left of my genitalia if I tell my partner that i’m not taking her to Paris so we can do an IRC chat.

[kevinjohngallagher]

I’m a big fan of people speaking their mind, I probably do it too often, but if we’re being honest, threads like these aren’t going to change anything. Even if you got 90% of the people that are on these boards to all come out and say that they agree with you, nothing will change.

Can we talk openly about this? It means sharing some hard truths…

1) There are roughly (roughly), 25 -30 different people that post on these forums every week. I’m sure you’ve noticed its the same folks for the most part over and over. Each of these people (you and I) represent a tiny tiny portion of the BBpress users. Its not that your opinions aren’t valued, it’s just that unless you come up with objective reasons behind your arguments then you’ll never see any changes you want.

2) You’re not programmers. Harsh, i know. But you’re on a support forum saying that you’re unhappy about proposed changes to free software that you don’t contribute to.

3) When did private companies start listening to people taking “votes” on their support forums. Oh, that’s right, never.

4) I’m going to make an assumption here (apologies if wrong), but you’re not project managers or BA’s either. Making BBpress a WordPress plugin (while not something i am happy with at all), makes sense from [the company that owns bbpress] stand point.

5) Matt, et all, are human and just trying to do their best. If you think they’ve overlooked a point then tell them. But it has to be a point that will make sense to a company like [the one that owns bbpress], and that rarely involves the phrase “i want” or “my vote”.

Look folks,

BBpress as a WordPress plugin is not going to come around any time soon. In honesty, it’s not going to be this year. if you don’t want a forum software that is focussed on integration with WordPress that’s cool, that’s a personal preference, but have a look on the tag list on the home page, and see what stands out.

WordPress integration is the single most talked about issue on the BBpress support forums because it’s the reason that a large percentage of people came to BBpress for.

We all have a different Wish List of features for this lovely piece of software, but that doesn’t mean that if BBpress doesn’t go our own personal way that it it’s “bbpress back on track”. if we’re honest, BBpress hasn’t been “on track” by it’s own standards for well over a year, but if you’re not contributing code or testing time, then frankly, your opinion is never really going to count for anything unless you back your points up with really really good objective reasons.

[Gautam]

@johnhiler

I think you misunderstood me. I am saying to only extract bp-forums part of BuddyPress and make a new WordPress plugin out of it which would integrate bbPress into WordPress.

By the way, the trunk version of BuddyPress can be installed on a normal WordPress install.

[johnhiler]

BuddyPress only offers one option: it’s a WordPress MU plugin, and can’t be installed as a standalone.

I think it’d be pretty tough to offer bbPress as both a plugin and a standalone… it sounds like the choice has been made to turn it into a plugin.

The only real way to keep it standalone would be if someone forked bbPress 0.9 or 1.0… that’s a lot of work though.

[Gautam]

I think it is just a modified version of BBcode Lite plugin by _ck_.

[OKTeaRoom]

I just made a post over at http://wordpress.org/support and I really like the formatting code buttons they are using for their forum.

Firebug has some code that eludes to ed_toolbar

Is this available in a plugin that I can use? Thanks.

[Gautam]

There was some discussion about making bbPress a WordPress plugin. This would lead to a complete re-write of the project, but I have a better idea:

1. bbPress should be a standalone platform, so it can also be run without WordPress.
2. There should be a plugin on WordPress plugins repo (for eg. bbPress Forums Integrator or simply bbPress), which would have bbPress as svn:external and load the bbPress files as BuddyPress does it. Basically the plugin could be what can be found here – http://trac.buddypress.org/browser/trunk/bp-forums
3. This way both type of users would be benefitted – those who want bbPress as a standalone and those who want it to be deeply integrated with WordPress.

Some of my thoughts…

Gautam

[grassrootspa]

@Gautam:

Nightgunner5 (Ben) would also be an excellent person to lead bbPress.

There certainly are quite a few talented folks who could potentially take some sort of evil dictator role.

haha, you are both new _ck_ s!

My meaningless vote goes to whoever dislikes bbPress becoming a WordPress plugin the most! They get a second vote if they want to add more features to the core (I vote early and often!)

[Gautam]

Thanks for the appreciation, grassrootspa!

Though I feel Ben is the new _ck_ (except for the fact that he is male.. lol )

[HeroicNate]

[EDIT chrishajer] I am a frequent user/theme builder for wordpress and more and more clients of mine want what chris is describing. I personally would find it to be a great help to have all of those 3 things. “From the creators of wordpress” is actually what turned me onto bbpress as well. I wanted a forum that would work hand in hand with wordpress. I wish I had more coding knowledge to be able to really contribute to the discussion. [EDIT -chrishajer] I’d say that people like me don’t necessarily need bbpress to be a plugin, but would like it to work with wordpress as if they were made for each other, so-to-speak.

[chrishajer]

I don’t think bbPress will be a WordPress plugin any time soon. 1.1 was to have a couple new features (subscribe to topic by email, anonymous posting) and the rest bug fixes. After that, and I think after WordPress 3.0 (with the merge of WPMU and also fleshed out custom post types) there would be some more thought, if not effort, put into bbPress as a WordPress plugin.

[chrishajer]

I know you’re being facetious, but I think that’s what a lot of users want. A forum that plays nice with WordPress, and by plays nice I mean single sign-on and it looks like WordPress. If bbPress were a plugin for WordPress, just as there are other WordPress forum plugins, you wouldn’t need to worry about the theming since the plugin would be inside WordPress. You wouldn’t need to worry about things like wp_list_pages() since you’d still be inside WordPress. And presumably, there wouldn’t be login issues since there would just be one login, WordPress.

I say presumably since I’ve never built a blog with WordPress and thus never had user registrations to worry about needing to be logged in already to bbPress.

I know I came to bbPress from WordPress (something like “forum software from the makers of WordPress” was the hook.) I never needed integration or look alike theme or even WordPress functions. So, for me, having bbPress standalone is fine since that’s how I use it. However, many people, I’d say half the support requests here, want:

1. forum to look like WordPress theme

2. log in once for both forum and WordPress

3. be able to use WordPress functions in bbPress (mostly theming, I think, but there are other requests as well.)

[bobtheman]

take the bbpress forums, throw the WP header, footer, theme, functions on it… why dont we just apply to have bbpress included in WP core and forget this ever existed.

Maybe a conversion tool to convert Wp themes to use on bbpress, all processed on the backend of course.

also, should bbpress look like wordpress? Is that what our project is striving for?

[chrishajer]

Integration to a lot of people also means “I want the forums to look like the WordPress site”. That was referred to by some as “deep integration” where you include WordPress in the bb-config.php and then have access to WordPress functions like get_header(), get_footer(), wp_list_pages(), etc.

[bobtheman]

An extremely, over exaggerated word that has been used to change the developmental focus of bbpress is Integration.

Its time we address this burdening issue and close the book on this 2 year old bug, mental or developmental. And to do this we will collectively discussion what integration is, what its not, and what is best for the bbpress project and community in the long run.

1st. One of the most important points that I would like to express is, Integration doesn’t mean Plugin. I could talk till im blue in the face on this, or link old posts where unknowing users use the words interchangeably … but its easier to point to this open and active discussion

http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/bbpress-a-plugin-or-independent-software-with-integration

Integration can mean, user integration, data sharing, shared user profiles etc. This doesn’t have to be just WordPress, but if bbpress is reduced to nothing more than a WordPress plugin, than the future of bbpress is contingent upon wordpress not to mention the effects this has on development “which is evident”

I wanted to keep this topic short and to the point, but isnt to say i wont weigh in with lengthy replys

To end this chapter of confusion and to get bbpress back on trac, on February 14 I propose a IRC meeting which will follow with a blog post of the results with a roadmap for the future.

[bobtheman]

any my reply, wanted to keep them separate ..

calling bbpress a plugin is insulting, why cant we call WordPress a plugin for bbpress? you get my point

developing bbpress as a “plugin” will not only choke its potential, but be another asset for the “WordPress installer of everything” and nothing grand for bbpress independently.

****Solution and proposal, integration is key, and there can be a “bbpress installer plugin” for WP, that helps install bbpress and integrate leaving bbpress as an independent project IE not a plugin dependent or subject to WP.

[johnhiler]

This project needs someone who believes in version 1.0, and the plan to turn bbPress into a WordPress MU plugin…

At this point, I just try to be helpful to our fellow users!

[brevica]

OK, I’ve followed the steps quite a bit, and no integration. Oddly enough, when one is signed in, the other is automatically signed out – you can’t be signed into WPMU and bbP at the same time. Step by step, this is what I did:

1 When installing wordpress/bbpress do NOT use "www." Example: use bbpress.org not http://www.bbpress.org and use the same database. You do not need to change the prefix, I prefer you don't because you'll run into problem later.

Done.

2 Make sure bbpress is in a folder in wordpress. example: wordpress/bbpress/ not on the same level.

Done. WP is in root folder, bbP is in forums

3 The folder does not have to be named bbpress, most people make it forum or forums.

*After successfully installing both programs open wp-config.php (in the wordpress folder) file. Around line # 45-# 48 you'll see define('AUTH_KEY'.... go to this URL (https://api.wordpress.org/secret-key/1.1/salt) and get the EIGHT keys and REPLACE the FOUR keys that are there. Save. Keep the file open for now.

4 Open bb-config.php (in the bbpress folder) do the same thing here. With the SAME keys you put in the wordpress file put in the bb-config file around line # 41-45. You have to add BB_ to the front of the names. Example: BB_AUTH_KEY to all eight. Save. Keep the file open for now.

Done.

5 Clear your cache on your browser. Log into your bbpress dashboard and go to Settings->Wordpress Integration-> WordPress Administrator should be keymaster. Every other option should be member for now. WordPress address (URL) should be the URL again NO www. Blog address (URL) the same as before. The last 3 should be LOCKED if not repeat the steps 3&4.

Done. Address is http://analyticspros.com.s70609.gridserver.com/

6 Login to your wordpress dashboard. Go to Plugins->Add New-> search for "bbPress Integration" it should be the first one. Install it and activate.

7 Go to Settings-> bbPress Integration. Enter the bbPress URL without the www. Your plugins URL leave blank. Click on Save Changes. On the bottom box you'll see some text copy it. Most likely it will say "define( 'COOKIEPATH', '/' );"

Done. This is the code:

define( ‘COOKIEHASH’, ‘c89fdd6b36f463ff1f02811d64f2f597’ );

define( ‘COOKIE_DOMAIN’, ‘.analyticspros.com.s70609.gridserver.com’ );

define( ‘SITECOOKIEPATH’, ‘/’ );

define( ‘COOKIEPATH’, ‘/’ );

8 Paste the line in wp-config.php file around line # 16 (MUST be on top. Don't know why) and paste it in bb-config.php in line # 13 (Must be on top). Save. You can delete the plugin, it's no longer needed.

9 Clear your cache on your browser and you're done.



Known Problems

*Two different database, one for WP and one for BBP, does not always work.

*Changing the database prefix. There are tutorials out there that tell you to do it, just don't.

*Hosting companies that offer free databases, have buggy databases.

*BBpress not being in WordPress folder. I don't think the plugin takes that into account.

*When you upgrade from an older version (wordpress/bbpress) the XX-config.php files are different than what you already have. Check wp-config.php against wp-config-sample.php & bb-config.php against bb-config-sample.php should be fairly simple.

None of the above problems apply to me. Any ideas?

[HeroicNate]

Hi, I’m a freelance graphic designer and I love wordpress and I’ve recently started to love bbpress. I’ve been customizing wordpress themes for a while now and I’ve just started getting into bbpress. Since I’ve been using these two so often, I really want to give something back. I don’t really have money or coding skills to contribute, I was hoping maybe I could help by coming up with a shiny cool template/theme that could possibly be included as one of the default themes. I’ve only just begun to figure out theming in bbpress, but I really want to contribute something, and design skills is what I got(i think ). All I’d need is to possibly be informed on new features or functions that I could design for. I could come up with cool mock-ups, and if the community likes it, I could chop it up into a theme.

[chrishajer]

WP Super Cache will not help with bbPress at all.

If everything was OK until December, what happened in December? Did you update and software or plugins? Did the host change something you don’t know about? With a hosting company, chances are they watch things like free disk space and RAM, but that’s worth checking into as well.

Can you dump the databases and see how large they are? Maybe a plugin has gone crazy and is just adding tons of data to the database causing access to take longer. There was a recent WordPress (or maybe bbPress) discussion about this, a typo in a plugin causing tons of garbage to be added to the database causing the database to grow huge.

Do you have access to logs? Depending on what you have access to, you might be able to find something interesting in a log.

Do you have the option to turn off plugins and revert to a default theme to see if the problem still exists?

There used to be a plugin called bb-benchmark that would help with this sort of performance thing.

My guess would be that this is a plugin causing a timeout when connecting to the database. What plugins are you using?

[kevinjohngallagher]

Hi Matt,

It really is amazing that you’re helping out with BBpress, it’s clearly something you love as much as we do, and we desperately try not to sound ungrateful.

The issue is that when there is no project management, then it’s a bit like herding cats (to quote Jane @ WordPress ;-] ). We all know and apprecaite that you’re busy and that BBpress is going to take a back seat sometimes, that’s to be expected mate. But you can’t have it both ways.

You can’t have a project where the project lead, lead developer, decision maker and talisman disappears for weeks on end; and then also seem unhappy when that doesn’t go down well.

Can you imagine if you released a version of WordPress without beta testing, bulked up the code by 50%, made it 50% slower, broke most plugins, didn’t have any documentation, had all the development team quit, have all bar 1 moderator quit, then leave it for 8 months not entirely working… What sort of response would there be on the WordPress forums? Maybe a bit Chicken Little.

Matt, i’m not a popular guy around here, my french/celtic phrasing winds people up when it’s not my intention at all, trult i apologise if I’ve done that with yourself too. But you’re looking at this from someone who’s been really involved since November, while those of us who’ve been here through 0.9 and 1.02 have a different very viewpoint.

Matt, you have WP3.0, the WPfoundation, maybe BuddyPress1.2, WPcamps, travel, as well as the normal day to day stuff to deal with. Man, we know you’re hella busy and we appreciate your time. But maybe you have to manage expectations a little here. Set some dates, say some hard truths, y’know, actual information “Relax. We’ve done this before” is probably the scariest thing i’ve read on the BBpress forum.

We greatly apprecaite your time mate, maybe you could apprecaite ours by giving us a heads up every now and then, rather than after the fact. Some clever soul built a blogging platform to make it easy to post info on

============================================================

There is no date because it’s hard for me to predict how much time I have

-Matt

Versus.

“We take a page from the world of project management and we make a project plan before we jump into the dev cycle…and set a realistic release date that we stick to”

– https://wordpress.org/development/2009/12/setting-scope/

Take Care everyone.

[Nuul]

“Not to be rude, but no wonder why both Sam and _ck_ left. I’m feeling like a battered women who just now realized that I’ve been abused for the past 2 years. “

-PRICELESS-

He does make some good points. Development is so poor atm, even I am abandoning this forum. bbPress feels kinda dead now, there was some hope when Matt did some involvement, but after 3 irc meetings or so this is gone as well. The last convulsion so to say. More and more people ar leaving and with good reason. Also some bad decisions have been made (in my oppinion) like making it a plugin for wordpress (though I understand why, but I would have liked a stand alone one too) and Backpress intergration (I mean, who is using that at all? It makes the forum way slower and bigger too). To be honest 0.9 is and feels way faster then 1.x and has many good and working plugins.

It’s a shame, it could have been some great forum software, it started so good

[Hard Seat Sleeper]

A while ago I brought up the idea to make a “Sandbox” theme for bbPress:

http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/sandbox-theme

I ended up doing that and a bit more. I updated Sandbox for WordPress and built a bbPress theme at the same time, so they work well together and if you skin one you can import the styles to the other quite easily.

http://selfevidenthotdogs.com/bones

It’s not as spare as Sandbox, but the colors are easy to remove and the semantics are there. Here’s the bbPress demo

http://selfevidenthotdogs.com/forum/

Let me know what you think.

[Kevin Ryman]

@Matt

Thank you for keeping up with this thread! It is nice to see you around here!

I own a license for IP.Board 3 and vBulletin 4 which are the best professional (paid) bulletin board solutions. Now I started using BBpress two weeks ago because I felt like I had to “see” how much progress the software had made. It has made some progress since I last use it but if you compare it to its big brother (WordPress) it hasn’t really make a drastic chance. The simplicity and easy of use BBpress offers is amazing. That’s why I like to keep up with the developer news and updates… I would hate to see this project die because of luck of a developer team…

Thank for reading this post!

fyi:

Matt, you’re an amazing person. WordPress is an awesome project and so is BBpress! Thank you for bringing us these two projects!

[chrishajer]

I didn’t know you could make a child theme for bbPress.