[kevinjohngallagher]

Hi Ipstenu,

I’m going to disagree with you a little mate, and try not to take it off topic too much.

Yes, each adjective is subjective to ones perspective. “easy” and “alot” etc. can mean different things to different people. That said, lets look at them a sec.

“extensive plugins?”

There are just under 120 plugins for BBPress.

Over 1/3rd haven’t been updated in a year. I’d wager a good few of them don’t work anymore.

And the ones with latest comments 6-12 months ago, usually don’t work either.

Also from what i’ve seen about 1/4 of them are redundant or useless in 0.9 / 1.0alpha.

So we’re looking at maybe 40-50 plugins.

Does anyone think that’s “extensive”?

I know it’s subjective, but, um, well you can make up your own mind.

“You CAN redesign the hell out of a bbPress site”

To a certain extent i’ll agree and disagree with it. To redesign a bbpress forum so that it doesn’t look like this theme actually takes a bucket load of work. I’ve done it for 3 websites, and every time it’s involved me writing full on plugins just to output the right code, or W3C acceptable code, or overwrite the damned code thats stored outwith the templates (why is that btw?).

Can i stop and ask that? WHY does a theme designer NEED to write alot of non basic php code as a separate to their theme plugin, just to over write HARDCODED design output? Since when was hardcoding design output into the core of a theme-able piece of software a good idea?

What you can’t do with bbpress, is hand a Designer/ HTML coder your template files and expect to get anything back that’s not a flat output of a table. It’s a point I raised a while ago (and i’ll not bang on about it) but BBpress works at doing one thing. Outputting a flat list from a database.

In terms of your all forums kinda look the same , i have to agree in this instance. Most forums, ipb/vBulletin/phpBB etc do all look the same. but guess what. bbpress doesn’t look much like them. I’ve stated before BBpress’s horrific handling of parent/children with categories etc. is bloody woeful; but if you’re talking about usability, then bbpress starts to fall down a little.

What it outputs is simple, yes, to the user, but it’s not very perceptive. Finding a specific post or vital information (say that 0.9 = WP2.5 – you know , something you’d expect to be on the documentation or download page but is actually on page 3 of a topic started 1 year ago) , is a disaster. It’s reliant on the user

who posted the content using TAGS appropriotely and ofc it requires a better search function.

Lets not forget that ‘tags’ are fairly new, and really only web savvy people use/know about them. A huge chunk of this software’s cross-pollination and iteration is taken out of the developers hands and placed smack bang in teh hand of the end user (whom we know nothing about nor can reply on).

Just because something is simple/plain, does not make it inherently usable.

Think Boo.com.

================================================

Anyway, there are a number of things we’d all like to see fixed in bbpress. Some more vital than others. we’ll all agree and disagree on many, but my over riding feeling is this:

Our Clients, customers, friends, colleagues, schools, own sites, will at some stage like to, nah need to, be updated to the latest version of WordPress. it will vary from person to person, but at some stage you know that a wordpress upgrade is probably in the pipes.

But if you’re using BBpress, then you’ve been forced to hold off upgrading for over half a year. We will be/are a whole version behind, and surely someone can see that it’s got to be an issue.

I suppose what i dont understand is, and maybe i’m the only one, so please 100% feel free to explain it to me like an idiot.

if The most requested topic on this website is “wordpress integration”, and the singular fail point of the software is “wordpress integration”, and teh company that owns this software also own wordpress, and it happens to be your singular initial selling point of the software, um, well, WHY THE HELL HAS IT NOT BEEN THE ONLY PRIORITY AND FIXED IN THE 3 MONTHS SINCE 1.0ALPHA CAME OUT?

We’ve had other fixes, new code, new features, a facebook page (see i hadn’t forgotten), but yet without even a hint of when this base level feature might appear, we’re told it’s a moving target.

Please, explain it to me like a 5 year old, that hasn’t read the blog posts linking to the $29 million dollars investment, that also lead to Sam being taken on as a full time developer on bbpress (i.e. dont say no time/resources).

[levifig]

@josswinn:

Sure, but when is a 1.0 product coming out?? And remember, WP is not bound to bbPress and bbPress is just darn slow! I’m ok with that, but I can’t afford using it if that’s the case! Every new WP version breaks integration and then there’s months before a new version of bbPress comes out… Sorry, not for me!

Don’t get me wrong, I love what they got here, but it just doesn’t fit me! I’ll recommend it to ppl wanting a very lightweight forum with little to no integration with any CMS! Well.. in that case why use bbPress, that’s my question!

See?

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

I think it’s best we say its… Not fit for purpose.

Well that entirely depends on your purpose.

I agree with many of your points but you can make them of many other (if not all) bb sites. The majority of sites look similar because of usability. People are used to things working a certain way, and they expect familiarity (which is how many many people out there define ‘usability’). That’s why car design doesn’t change much. It’s not perfect, but people like it. That’s why people cried bloody murder over OS changes from Windows 3.1 to XP, but they got over it. Change is hard for users to accept. They don’t want to learn how to drive, again, they want to get on the road and talk about STEAM, damn it!

Yes ‘easy’ integration with your WordPress site is a misrepresentation at this time. But the rest? That’s all perception and usage. You CAN redesign the hell out of a bbPress site. If you want to. The base code IS customizable, there ARE a lot of plugins. These are facts. What you do with the options is up to you, though.

I don’t think bbPress is perfect, but after spending years trying to mesh my site with other forums out there, I’d rather have this than them.

(Steam is a joke from http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting which is my favorite thing ever)

[Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)]

Avatars – They are in there by default, as Gravatars, they’re just turned off.

As for BBcode … Eh. Given that this is a spin off of WordPress and WP uses HTML and not BB code, I see why they chose not to.

[John James Jacoby]

Could not have said it any better… If Matt was paying my bills, I would be the first to step up and commit myself to making bbPress exactly what the audience of WordPress wants it to be and still make Matt happy…

Matt, are you listening?

[elegos]

Hello there!

I was wondering… which addons will be put as “predefinite” in bbPress? I know that “less is more”, but atm, using the 1.0 alpha, I can’t say it’s a newbie-friendly type of forum:

– there is no bbCode (who knows it will use it, not HTML ) => you have to add a plugin (bbCode) and another one to enable the images tag.

– no smiles (ok, the abuse of them is something like HELL, but the absence is too), you have to add a plugin, and another one to enable images (if you haven’t done before).

– the editor too is too poor: can’t you make an addon to easily insert all the tags you can insert in? (like the bbCode one, not compatible with Opera)

– avatars: c’mon, you’ve got them also in the official bbPress forum – another addon

So… there will be some addons like these in the release version? If not, how do you expect people will take bbPress if they allways have to stay under all the most important plugins? What if a developer stops working on one of them?

Thanks

[Joss Winn]

Well, I wouldn’t be so harsh… It’s not even 1.0 software yet and I’m looking to integrate two applications from SVN trunk, ideally using a third-party LDAP plugin I didn’t really expect it to work but hopefully reporting my findings might help us along the way…

I’ve spent enough time on it for now, but will watch for progress and help test with interest.

[income-tax]

It did not worked for me

[Joss Winn]

Glad someone else is having the same problem I’ve managed to make things even more complicated now as I’ve integrated LDAP authentication with WPMU 2.7 but bbpress doesn’t seem to be able authenticate users that are created in WPMU from LDAP.

Ah, well. Enough for one day.

[_ck_]

There are no added new features only bugfixes, one important. No security issues.

These are the only files that need to be replaced on a 0.9.0.2sp1 install:

http://tinyurl.com/5eoukz

Props should be given to ipstenu who was the first to report the serious profile email editing bug which was actually in the code for eight months and no-one noticed. Essentially no regular member could change their email address after registering. Admin could change anyone’s email address without a problem which is why it probably went un-noticed for so long.

[Nipon]

@levifig: Well I forgot to add… yes me too lost the wp_user_level on my user id. But in the end, I can’t access BB admin though it shows me logged in.

[_ck_]

Just download and start playing with it. Best way to learn about anything.

Structure is extremely similar to WordPress with improvements because bbPress doesn’t have to support the old legacy problems that WordPress has.

My first tip to anyone installing bbpress is

1. don’t call the folder bbPress, maybe call it forums (plural)

2. don’t install it directly under wordpress unless you really think that is more natural

suggested:

webroot

blog

forums

3. remember during integration you have to change your cookie path in wordpress and bbpress to the webroot, otherwise you’ll never get the cookies to integrate

Then follow the Integration 101 topic.

[John James Jacoby]

I am curious if wordpress.org uses a “deep” integration? I’ve compared the sources and it really appears that they have similar <head>’s.

Even if theme integration isn’t possible, I like where you’re going with getting the cookies and admin panels working cohesively. I would actually really like to make a plug-in for WordPress to integrate the bbPress admin panel into it. I feel like it wouldn’t be too difficult since most of the code already exists.

I suppose “unusable” is a harsh description, but considering the audience and what they’re chanting for, if it won’t handle sessions and can’t integrate the theme and functions, then what looks like your girlfriend actually ends up being your sister. If it wasn’t for the integration, we could use fluxbb or any other minimalistic semantically focused forum software.

Me wonders if it wouldn’t hurt to have two versions of bbPress. One stand-alone, and one WordPress plug-in. Hmms…

[John James Jacoby]

Sweet deal… Looks like things are well on their way now with the integration of the nonce in there now.

Does that mean both applications share the same nonce now? Before each would create their own even when integrated.

---

After further review, it looks like WP and BBP create different nonces, even if the keys are the same in the config. I suppose this makes sense considering what a nonce is, but darn would I like to be able to logout of WordPress when viewing the forum.

[levifig]

I’m getting annoyed by bbPress already…

Wouldn’t post my reply and then posted 3 times and then no way to delete them…

[Sam Bauers]

Setting up the Facebook page took about 15 minutes. It was just a whim. Part irony…

@johnjamesjacoby

The “deep” integration you talk about and have had trouble with is a known problem. But it is not the focus of my development time at the moment. There is also a chance support for it will be dropped completely if there are too many blockers leading up to 1.0, I’m not a fan of the method which is basically only accidentally a possibility at the moment. I’ll look into it but I have to warn you, it will be last on my list leading up to 1.0

Integration of user tables and cookies is a priority on the other hand, as is creating a full XML-RPC interface for those who want to pull data into a WordPress install. I know of only one problem with cookie sharing which has no solution at the moment (admins who login via WordPress have no access to bb-admin), and I will be working on a solution for that soon (it requires a WordPress plugin to be authored, which opens up the possibility to make a few other steps during integration on the WordPress side easier).

Integration only became a real “feature” of bbPress with 0.9 when it was brought front and centre during install and got it’s own admin options page. Unfortunately WordPress is a moving target and it is difficult to keep up with all it’s changes (especially when internally at Automattic we still use 0.9). It’s a little unfair to say that bbPress isn’t usable. We use it for some very big forums ourselves, all of which have some level of integration going on.

Anyway, don’t get me wrong, your comments are welcome here and I’m glad you are a real fan and not just a Facebook fan.

[Sam Bauers]

I almost forgot…

If you have an urge to hard code the secret salts in there as well then you can go here:

https://api.wordpress.org/secret-key/1.1/salt/bbpress/salt/

The salts are usually generated for you and stored in the database. Few people have to add them manually to the file.

[Sam Bauers]

WordPress has had an online tool available for a while to generate random strings in a format suitable for the wp-config.php file. It is at:

http://api.wordpress.org/secret-key/1.1/

This has just been extended to return code appropriate for bbPress as well. Just go to:

http://api.wordpress.org/secret-key/1.1/bbpress/

Enjoy! Sam.

[TechGnome]

YEaaah….. two different databases… in fact the databases will be on different servers… in two different parts of the country… both behind firewalls…. not a long story, but that’s the setup.

Maybe if I explain a little more, it’ll put it into context – the web site is for a radio station. The main part of the web site will be used for initial announcements, browsing albums and making requests.

What I want to be able to do from the website is three things:

1) include the login from as needed (or greet the user if logged in)

2) allow the user to make requests – if they are logged in. If they aren’t then I want to redirect them

3) store the username with the request when made (if I can get to the user name, then I can store it in the other database – there’s a place for it already.)

Other than that, there’s nothing I need directly from the bbPress database. I don’t need to access the database, just need to get their UserID/UserName if they are logged in (presumably if the UserName is set, they are logged in, or is that too easy? )

I’d like to note that I’ve been using bbPress off and on for the last couple of years, WP for even longer and I am a programmer by trade… so don’t be afraid to the lay the technology on me, I can take it. I’m decent in PHP, but by no means an expert, and I don’t have trouble figuring out the stuff I don’t know… especially if I’m just pointed in the right direction.

If I include the following at the top of the pages where I need it… will it give me what I need to do this:

<?php



require('./bb-load.php');



$bb_db_override = false;

do_action( 'bb_index.php_pre_db', '' );



?>

I know I would need at least the first require for bb-load.php (naturally changing the path to the correct location). But would I also need the other two lines? (I will be searching the documentation for those two settings to see what I can find.)

-tg

[John James Jacoby]

I think you summed it up awesomely. I know that I’ve only recently discovered bbPress, and that right now my contributions are minimal and certainly don’t justify the attitude that came out of my fingers. I do sincerely apologize for venting my frustrations, but Chris is totally right as far as login and theme integration go.

I graduated to WordPress from phpBB and the CHBB categories hierarchy spin-off of phpBB2.x. What I love about WP, I hate about phpBB, and what I love about phpBB, I hate about WordPress. What the phpBB team always did well, was catalog and document their code and coding guidelines, almost always and from the start. Even though different authors wrote different pages, the code always looked the same and worked the same, but WP and BBP aren’t like that. Finding and repairing WP/BBP issues is becoming increasingly difficult as there are functions hidden within functions that add one extra capability just to echo other functions.

If I could have a dream job right now, it would be to get paid to be the code janitor to the automatic teams code for the wp3.0 and bbpress 2.0 milestones. To refresh the codebase for the major revisions. Also coming from phpBB, I’m surprised to see WP uses so many echo statements all over the place. I feel the template engine that the phpBB Categories Hierarchy uses was just so amazing and worked so well that moving to WordPress felt like a step sidways.

Anyhow, I’ve taken this topic way off topic, and I don’t mean to vent my ill feelings in what should be a celebration topic. If you mods want to clean this up or split this apart I would totally understand.

Cheers!

[chaslie]

Just had another idea !!!!! Would this scenerio work?

Using 0.9.0.2

In the KAKUMEI theme, can this line (Line 43): <?php if ( bb_forums() ) : ?>

be replaced to to just call up on the front page only the forums that have a certain ID?

Something like: <?php if ( bb_forums(ID=1,2,3,4,5) ) : ?>

I don’t know PHP that well to be able to guess the actual code required. What do you think?

Have tried what zappoman suggested here (https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/hide-subforums-on-main-page#post-21413) but cannot get it to work.

[_ck_]

I just disagree with promoting a product before it’s even usable.

bbPress is very usable, just not finished. But it’s certainly *not* being promoted. All we have is this support forum. If it was being promoted, it would be listed on WordPress.org/WordPress.com and there would be hundreds of thousands of users. bbPress currently has less than 10,000 active installs. That should change by this time next year.

bbPress was originally written by Matt to simply give a support forum for WordPress (WordPress.org). Everything from there was just Matt releasing the source. There never was a general plan after that until Matt started talking about TalkPress which is still very far away by my best guess.

bbPress’s greatest strength is it can be integrated in many websites easily and made to look like them easily. But it’s still a growing child and very young. If you are looking for a polished product, you need something with over half a decade of development like phpBB, vBulletin or SMF. The downside to them is they are very rigid and hard to develop for. bbPress is incredibly easy to develop for, I only learned PHP a few years ago and look what I’ve managed to do. Just imagine what a person who knew what they were doing could do

[_ck_]

If you have your own server make sure you setup your mysql cache properly and even more importantly make sure you install some kind of PHP opcode cache (eaccelerator, xcache or APC). Even the fastest server will greatly benefit from an opcode cache.

[techypenguin]

hi u all. sorry for the late reply. i’ve got it sorted. it’s because of my server cache level is not enough for handling newer version of server software. I recently bought a hp proliant server and all the issues been sorted. thanks for the reply. i’m thinking to develop a plugin for bbpress now since i’m happy with my server..

[serpentguard1701]

I’m trying to improve on some breadcrumb code in the Edit Post section, and need to retrieve the forum ID from the post ID. Is this possible?