[chrishajer]

Wait – if you are NOT logged in, can you get to wp-admin and log in? Maybe it’s just a cookie issue.

Are you logging in with bbPress or WordPress? And did you integrated the two some how? At this point, I think it’s got to do with the login cookies. Try a different browser and see if you can log in to wp-admin first, without trying to log in to bbPress.

[chrishajer]

If you cannot access the WordPress admin, even without bbPress installed, then some other change is making your WordPress admin inaccessible. Did you modify wp-config.php in any way? Can you access your WordPress site without getting a white screen?

If you have access to logs on your server, you can find out what Internal Server Error (500) is causing the white screen.

To uninstall, you just need to remove the folder and drop the tables in the database. But with the folder removed, I don’t think your white screen has anything to do with bbPress at all. Unless you modified wp-config.php or any of your template files to incorporate bbPress.

Did you make any changes other than installing bbPress, at or around the same time?

Sounds like you have it installed in the correct place, according to the layout you posted here.

[john010117]

My two cents (if it’s worth anything): Keep bbPress 1.1 and continue to maintain it. However, get a new dedicated group of developers to actively code and maintain a wordpress forum plugin (named differently like talkpress for example). And on both website’s front pages, specifically list the differences between bbPress and “talkPress” so people won’t get confused.

[johnhiler]

I completely support Automattic’s investment in a new WordPress forum plugin!

That said, I think it would avoid a lot of confusion if it were named something else besides “bbPress”.

[_ck_]

Well actually I am typically fairly quiet about the back end stuff and community politics.

But I’ve regretted over the past year or two not voicing enough concern at the start over backPress so now I simply do not want to see another big mistake, the bbPress name hijacked for a third, completely different forum program.

My request is quite simple: do whatever else you’d like but please do not call it bbPress when it has no relationship with any previous version of bbPress.

If bbPress truly is an open source community project and not exclusively owned/managed by Automattic, well then here’s the chance to prove that.

If Matt suddenly announced that WordPress would radically change from 3.0 to 3.1 and out of the blue use a newly developed core that completely invalidated all existing themes, plugins, utilities and knowledgebase – wouldn’t you be just a little bit concerned and upset? Would you speak up or “go with the flow” ?

In the above scenario, if you were new to WP 3.1, you wouldn’t care and would wonder why people were complaining so much. But if you had a few years invested, maybe you’d feel a little differently. Maybe you’d ask them to leave the old version alone and call it something else.

[willcrain]

sorry about that. I did have it set up like that. (my spaces didnt show up in the post)

wordpress-instance ( http://www.examplesite.com )

---

>files with wp instance (ie wp-config.php, index.php, etc)

---

>[folder] wp-admin/

---

>[folder] wp-content/

---

>[folder] plugins/

---

>[folder] themes/

---

>[folder] myCustomTheme/

---

>[folder] index.php

---

>[folder] wp-includes

---

>[folder] bbpress instance (which i call ‘discussion-center’)

in this case in order to access my bbpress site i use:

http://www.examplesite.com/discussion-center

and that works, i can see it all and interact with both…but, once logged in however i can not access the wordpress admin panel, http://www.examplesite.com/wp-admin … just a white page… as well as http://www.exaplesite.com/wp-login.php… even if i remove the [folder] bbpress instance from my wordpress instance it still doesnt offer access for wordpress… i would try uninstalling it and reinstalling it but what else would i have to remove other than the instance folder?

thanks again for any help

[Ryan Hellyer]

Why do the powers that be not see reason in what _CK_ says above?

Justin Tadlock’s forum plugin avoids these problems. Why can’t the new Automattic created one too?

http://justintadlock.com/archives/2010/07/16/a-wordpress-forum-plugin-using-custom-post-types

[_ck_]

Holy cow, there is some serious kool-aid drinking going on.

You can’t just up-end a community and then ask everyone to be positive about it.

Zero consultation was done with the community/contributors, exactly the same amount that was done with backPress. Let’s be CRYSTAL CLEAR about that right from the start.

For the people showing up out of the blue and jumping into the bbpress project suddenly this year, having NEVER contributed in the past few years, and in effect telling us to “shut up and go along with it” – I am seriously not going to take that nonsense, even if you say “please”.

You don’t just take a project and completely re-write it into something else and take it’s name. It’s not yours, it belongs to the community who adopted the existing program and worked many hours to install it, figure out bugs and improve it. It’s not yours to show up late and completely re-invent after that.

You don’t wash away the years of forum questions and answers by intermingling them with a different, incompatible version.

You don’t just call it 1.2 when it will have nearly zero code/layout/theme/compatibility with 0.9/1.0/1.1 – I mean sheesh, even calling it 2.0 would have been a minimal effort to note it’s something different but no, 1.2 is to confuse as many as possible either on purpose or out of apathy.

You don’t insist it has nothing to with Automattic when the SVN/TRAC slots were decided and made by Automattic people on Automattic servers at Matt’s directive as a plugin for another Automattic managed product.

The main developer of bbPress 0.8/0.9 was an Automattic employee (Michael) under Matt’s directive, the main developer of 1.0 was an Automattic employee (Sam) under Matt’s directive. It’s an Automattic product, always will be. Matt has been trying to figure out how to monetize it for years which is why it keeps getting messed with, so he can make a wordpress.com equivalent for forums.

Even JJJ admitted a YEAR AGO, that it’s a good thing bbPress is separate from WordPress because of how blogs and forums are different even though they share similar data structures. But now it’s a 180 turn in the opposite direction because of Matt’s whim.

If you want me and the other people who have a problem with this to shut up, it is SUPER SIMPLE to end this problem:

1. don’t call it bbPress
2. start another Automattic site to build your forum plugin

   (or attach it to a wordpress.org subdomain which probably would have been more appropriate)

3. finish what was started: it’s too late for 0.9 to be properly finished as it should have been into 1.0 before the 180 with backPress but it’s not too late for 1.1 to be released and then matured into 1.2

Don’t just march into an existing community, take it over and change it’s course into another 180 turn for the second time in three years and expect anyone to just smile and go along with it.

What you aren’t seeing are the 10,000+ sites that don’t post here and have successfully adopted it, even with virtually no advertising or support from the WordPress community.

Ironically I would have far more easily accepted another forum project being started by Matt and unfortunately letting bbPress slowly die over what is being done now.

[xarzu]

I have moved my wordpress blog from a subdirectoy down to the root and it seems to be working fine now.

When I installed the wordpress and the bbpress, I gave settings to ensure that they were tied together.

Now that I have moved the wordpress to the root directory, what do I have to change in the wordpress and the bbpress to make sure that when you post to the blog it appears in the forum etc.?

[chrishajer]

If your WordPress site is at http://www.example.com, and that corresponds to “wordpress-instance”, then you want the folder “bbpress-instance” accessible at http://www.example.com/bbpress-instance.

It’s hard to tell the hierarchy of your folders from your post, but basically, you want a folder (with bbPress files in it) at the same level as wp-config.php. The name of the folder matters, since it will be visible in the URL (bbpress-instance in the above example.)

You should end up with this folder setup when you are done.

wordpress-instance/

----bbpress-instance/

bb-config.php

bb-templates/

----wp-config.php

----wp-content/

plugins/

themes/

Make sense?

[willcrain]

After the first time that I logged into my bbpress account after the install with wordpress I was no longer able to access the wordpress wp-admin page. no login option or anything. whenever i try to login i dont get anything… i can however log into the bbpress admin account

My set-up is as followed:

wordpress-instance

>files with wp instance (ie wp-config.php, index.php, etc)

>[folder] wp-admin

>[folder] wp-content

>[folder] plugins

>[folder] themes

>[folder] myCustomTheme

>[folder] uploads

>[folder] index.php

>[folder] wp-includes

>[folder] bbpress instance

Is this where i would want to put the bbpress instance for installation?

Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks.

[John James Jacoby]

Too much to address, but I’ll pick some points.

WordPress + BuddyPress + W3 Total Cache = less than 10 queries on a complete social network. If optimization is your cup of tea, there’s lots of ways you can achieve that. Core issues with WP should be directed over to those folks.

If you have a method to make it better, submit a patch. Then you can work your way up to being one of ‘those people’ that are making the decisions that you don’t agree with.

Pete’s status, isn’t any different than the way you all feel about things. If you can vent your frustrations, so can he.

Help me understand why we’re upset again.

1. bbPress 1.1 (standalone) – Still in active development

2. bbPress 1.2 (plugin) – Months before anyone should consider it stable, but you’re welcome to jump on the bandwagon early and help make it exactly the way you want it, side by side with Pete and myself, and anyone else that’s along for the ride.

Regarding # 1, what MORE do you want your lightweight standalone software to do? If you want it to be more efficient, spend some time walking through queries and making it that way. If you want something in the UI changed, do it; patch it; make it go, and I will review it, and commit it.

Regarding # 2, our goal is to have this usable ASAP as part of the 3.org initiatives, but I wouldn’t want anyone outside of that initiative using it for production until it’s released. I know we all like to live on the bleeding edge (I’ve always been that guy too) so now’s your time to start helping us weld things in from the very get-go. If you think the way we’ve doing it now is completely wrong, let us know and provide us a better way; I am happy to listen and make it right, because I want what you want; the best bbPress possible.

I think all this talk about Matt, and Automattic, should be redirected back towards Automattic the company, and not bbPress the open source software. I understand the two are perceived to be tightly integrated because mixing money and open source is mixing business with pleasure, and it’s always hard to explain or understand the difference.

I think the general negativism has taken its toll already, and it’s time to try to look at this glass as half full going forward. Please? Kindly?

Not trying to be a jerk here, but man… there is no end in sight here, and it just isn’t productive or helpful anymore. We need to tighten this ship up before it sinks itself. I say this, not from a “looking down” perspective, but from a “‘we’re in this together so let’s make the best of it” perspective.

[Aaron Jorbin]

JJJ and Pete: Congrats and best of luck on the project. I’ll lend any support and help I am able to. I am excited and looking forward to this plugin.

_CK_ I’d really like to know why you think this is an auttomatic decision? Neither Pete nor JJJ work for Automattic. As far as WordPress goes, multiple lead developers/committers are non Automattic employees. WordPress is a Meritocracy. The more you contribute, the more you demonstrate an understanding of the philosophy, the more responsibility and influence that you have. If you find your opinions are being ignored, I suggest trying to influence those that have contributed diplomatically or contributing patches.

[doobadabba]

I’m excited to hear that bbPress as a WordPress plugin is getting spirited attention and development!

I can also feel for all the contributors to current and past iterations of bbPress, who may have felt left in the dark, or unappreciated. Well, I appreciate you!

I’ve got a little niche community site right now. The site has a blog, and a classifieds section, and a bbPress forum. I’ve got integrated login working, but would love to have even more integration between bbPress and WordPress (especially shared header and footer, and it would be good to have just a single “profile” associated with members of my site).

As digging into code is not my most favorite thing, I’m hoping that bbPress-as-WP-plugin can simplify all of my WordPress projects.

I’m aware that some people may want to keep a standalone bbPress project going, even if only the maintenance of current and former iterations of bbPress.

And I can see that using the same name “bbPress” for both the upcoming bbPress-as-WP-plugin, and the current-and-former-standalone-bbPress-iterations that may be continually maintained, is potentially a source of confusion.

But, I don’t think it has to be confusing.

If a central location, such as this website, clearly presents and describes the differences between using the upcoming bbPress-as-WP-plugin and current-and-former-standalone-bbPress-iterations, then I think people will be able to decide what is best for them.

If I understand correctly, Matt was the original coder (and I’m guessing namer) of bbPress. And it seems that he is the top caller of shots for how bbPress goes forward. As such, I don’t think he should need to rename bbPress-as-WP-plugin to anything other than bbPress, even tho so many other people have been making bbPress what it is today.

But if he did rename it to something like pbPress (plugin-board-press), it might simplify things. How about ccPress (community-creation-press)?

That’s my though-gasm in this moment anyway. Thanks to all of you who have gotten bbPress to where it is today, and to all of you who are moving bbPress forward, and also to all who are mindful of moving forward in a fashion that is not unduly regressive

[chrishajer]

What happened the very first time you tried to log in with the generated password? Were you integrated with WordPress?

[Rich Pedley]

I doubt it is a plugin myself. I suffered from these a long time ago, but hadn’t made any changes to the site for a while at that time.

some of these may be worth a look:

this forum has some interesting comments about it.

What is a core file

WordPress and core dumps

WP tavern

[Gautam Gupta]

Kevin my friend,

For those of us who make a living with bbPress, unilateral decisions made without visibility and with no re-course for questioning nor appeal are scary. really scary.

At least v1.1 is there for the time being, hopefully that would be released soon (after 2 bugs on 1.0.3 and 1.1 are fixed). It’s pretty stable and those who want to run a standalone, can run it and customize it with existing plugins/themes.

And about making a living, it can also be done with bbPress as a WP plugin

I think people are allowed to be a little shell-shocked at this bombshell; especially as it didn’t even warrant its own forum post, sticky or blog post. It just comes across as a footnote and unimportant.

The forum topic is this one and the announcement is here (I know no one told any of us about this blog).

For others – Justin just posted about the WP forum plugin that he has made on his own – http://justintadlock.com/archives/2010/07/16/a-wordpress-forum-plugin-using-custom-post-types

[kevinjohngallagher]

Tom,

I totally agree with the premise.

Focussing on the positives is the way forward.

For those of us who make a living with bbPress, unilateral decisions made without visability and with no re-course for questioning nor appeal are scary. really scary.

I for one, am totally and 100% behind the separate forum plugin for WordPress. But I think it’s ok that we ask some questions about it, and while the thread’s not in the most positive tone, I don’t think anyone has asked anything from left field, nor said anything antagonistic or derogatory.

It’s not like we’re asking for info that won’t have already been discussed when making the decision about plugin vs. standalone.

There would have been bench tests, user experiences, requirement gather – y’know numbers and paperwork. I know we’re never going to see the full documentation, but I think it’s ok to ask for an overview. Not to pick holes in it, but to feel positive that the decision is a good one, and one that we can get behind/support/make better

=======================================================================

Andrew, Pete and JJJ and I have had a wee email conversation earlier in the week, before (and during) this thread started. There was some truly great info in that thread. Information that would appease some of the issues brought up here, quell some of the language & tone being used. It confirmed to me that these are the people to take bbPress forward. But that doesn’t mean I am going to put my own and my children’s livelyhood on the line and follow blindly.

everything is going to be A-okay

is alot like

Relax. We’ve done this before.

And man, that didn’t work out too well

I think people are allowed to be a little shellshocked at this bombshell; especially as it didn’t even warrant it’s own forum post, sticky or blog post. It just comes across as a footnote and unimportant. It comes across as “shit, you folks found out? um…” Now of course that ain’t true, but thats the base perception.

Apparently the scrapping of all current bbPress code and new of it’s replacement isn’t even important enough for someone to hit that “sticky” button at the bottom.

Because of this, some emotions will run high, but we’ve both been around the block enough to know that as long as people keep the conversation in house and try to resolve things then we’ll get there

Not everyone will agree with everything, but we’ll get there as long as no-one makes any derogatory comments about the software or community in a KeyNote speech or on an influential Twitter feed we’ll be grand at resolving this, and bringing folks tegether in a positive sense

The dudes who are now running the show just need to give out enough info to get control of the conversation. Once that happens, even more of life will be positive.

[_ck_]

By the way I want to address this quote:

…it’s not “Automattic” that decides what ends up in the core of WordPress – we have open discussions to set the feature lists for each release and the decisions are driven based on input from a large base of regular contributors.

You are kidding yourself if you think the community is given anything but choices on minor things. Major decisions that change the entire direction of these projects for Automattic are made every year by Matt. Changing bbPress to use backPress is the #-1 example of a single sourced decision done without any input from any contributors. bbPress as a WordPress plugin is another one.

The very first simple question I asked when I heard about backPress is “when will WordPress be changed to also use backPress” (to benefit from all the work needed and the theoretical savings from using a common function set). It’s a very easy problem to predict but was never asked and never answered, ending us up exactly where we are today.

[deadlyhifi]

Can we focus on the positives:

bbPress was laying there dormant – it now has a future. This future isn’t going to suit everyone but that’s life.

I’m not at all surprised bbPress will become dependant on WordPress. People have wanted an easy to integrate solution for a long time. The majority of support posts on this forum tend to be about integration (if they’re not CSS based!). bbPress as a plugin will satisfy those needs.

Yes, there will be certain users that get burned, but there are ways around it.

People are falling into 3 groups:

1. Need a forum that works with WordPress
2. Need a standalone forum, but some WordPress integration is ideal (sign in/users)
3. Needs a standalone forum.

1. Satisfied customers
2. Satisfied customers – this will be easier than it’s ever been. I know, I’ve spent hours and hours theming bbP, making sure cookies work, and all the other hoops I’ve had to jump through.
3. Either run WP and don’t use it (just let it sit there, but really, how many sites don’t have some kind of blog associated with them?), and if it’s really not ideal or you’re completely against it there are plenty of standalone forum softwares out there.

At least we know what is happening and people can make informed decisions about which way to go with their site.

The decision has been made so accept it and use all this energy and knowledge to contribute to the project and make a great product.

_ck_, you know I always appreciate your efforts towards plugins and your extensive knowledge on bbPress, so why not use it to participate and keep the new bbP plugin streamlined – as much as it can be considering your comments on WP3.0 performance.

[mr_pelle]

But the users in Group3, the people who chose this as standalone forum software and didn’t make that decision based on WordPress – they’re being thrown out on their ear. With no warning.

That’s exactly what I was trying to say!

By the way, http://twitter.com/petemall/status/18674039981

[_ck_]

With all the eyeballs looking at WordPress and all the new faces every few years, it’s amazing to me how much code optimization falls through the cracks and is never addressed.

bbPress as a plugin is now going to be exposed to that. In fact, ironically in 0.9 there are functions from earlier versions of WordPress that were never optimized and do “expensive” recalculations and yet it’s STILL significantly faster than 1.0 with the newer functions from BackPress.

WordPress still has places where it calculates kinds of conversion tables yet never stores them statically for when it will likely be used again in the same page load. All those eyeballs looking at the code never see it and never fix it.

WordPress after all these years STILL uses the poorly performing SQL_CALC_FOUND_ROWS, something that was discovered and fixed in bbPress 0.9 but ironically was re-introduced with BackPress in 1.0, and will likely continue as a plugin.

My problem with “progress” is regression. It happens often because no-one questions the bloat and then the bloat starts to hide mistakes because the code is too hard to follow and people forget the original purpose of a function.

But by all means, keep throwing junk into the core, don’t dare keep it isolated in a plugin where it can be examined and improved easily (ie. avatars, tinymce, phpmailer, etc.)

They never do version freezes for long periods of time to clean up and optimize code, they just pile on features in the name of progress.

Go install WP 2.1 and check the memory and query footprint.

Then install WP 3.0 and compare. It’s fairly disgusting in comparison.

[_ck_]

@Marius, but everyone downloads different ones.

I’d never want to see even a handful of my plugins built into bbPress by default.

As much as people express the desire for a program to do everything they want out-of-the-box, it’s a VERY bad idea with software. Makes things too bulky. WordPress today is a perfect example of what happens when you give into that desire, you get bloated, overloaded, slow code.

But sadly they don’t believe in plugins – I’m kinda surprised even akismet is not hard coded into WordPress.

bbPress should have been a lightweight framework, half the size that it is now, that maybe shipped with a dozen plugins that are OFF by default. Too late now though.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Hi Pedagog,

You’re not wrong. ther are more options for login/registration in WordPress. The simple solution is to physically point the links for login and registration to the WordPress ones.

Anywhere you output a link to bb-login, just change that to wp-login. You will have to edit your theme to make this happen, but its well worth it

[Ivaylo Draganov]

A well written post too!

Thanks! Just a bit too many links for Akistmet though

And of course it could not be seen in action on my forum, because it is visible only to logged in users… silly me

The bbpress.org forums could also use a simple toolbar. Not so sophisticated but at least like the one on wordpress.org