[paulhawke]

“bbPress without backpress” is not the same as “bbPress 0.9”

In version 0.9 there was bbPress specific code to perform a variety of functions. Those method calls were migrated to use a sub-set of the WordPress codebase (“backpress”). That became version 1.0 … and what was done was to move from “a subset of WordPress” to “the whole of WordPress”.

A more accurate statement would therefore be that bbPress specific code was dropped, it moved to using WP features divorced of the rest of WP, and then was made to work with WP as a whole — a continuation of forward momentum and not a step backward at all.

[kevinjohngallagher]

So this will be another of my unpopular posts, i’ve had a whole week of working on bbPress, so this is my 3rd of the week – apologies to all.

It’ll really help this conversation if you read http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/future-of-bbpress#post-60022 which is written by the wonderful Andy Peatling who has integrated bbPress with BuddyPress (and therefore into WordPress). Basically, he is the authority on the matter.

I bring this up because I thought today, what the heck are we doing? WordPress integration is the single most asked for feature, it’s the reason a large number of people choose bbPress, and according to Matt:

Strategically the most important thing we need to figure out is how to integrate bbPress better with WP

-http://bbpress.org/forums/topic/future-of-bbpress

Ok, but if we look at what Andy has said, in order for this to happen we need to remove BackPress from bbPress. Except… 90% of the changes from bbPress0.9 to bbPress1.0 was adding BackPress.

So, if integration is the plan (even as a plugin), and integration = no backPress, then whatever platform we build the fully integrated bbPress out of is bbPress without BackPress, or as we commonly call it bbPress0.9.

So then why are we building on top of bbP1.0, when we’re going to have to port that code back to 0.9 in the future or worse, attempt to combine the two. Why are we focussing on features that are already in WordPress as standard, given that they will work as via the WP functions once integrated.

How far down the rabbit hole are we going to go before we take a slightly longer term look?

Anyone have any thoughts for a Friday evening?

[kevinjohngallagher]

Any webmaster that isn’t really tech savvy…

bbPress is not aimed at non-tech-savvy people. Infact the same with WordPress really. Editing of files and the ability to use FTP is a must or the thing won’t work (you have to edit and upload a config file).

Editing or changing anything involves some basic-PHP knowledge really, and this is pretty much always going to be the way of it – if you don’t got for a premium theme/framework/plugin.

It’s unbelievable actually in this day and age.

We hear this from time to time, and i can’t understand why it comes up. But it comes down to “basic” features and what is now considered “standard” features for forums. The difference is that “basic” features are things that forums need to do it’s job. “Standard” features are from a personal perception based on what other forum solutions have – that doesn’t make them any less valid as feature requests.

bbPress is always going to be feature-less in comparison to other forums out there, with the reliance on people writing plugins or editing the code to customize things for themselves – thats an aim, not a side effect. As much as the people on this forum try and help out those that are new or not quite sure, the realism is we’re years away from a free “out of the box” solution for 90% of the requests people make.

[Ashish Kumar (Ashfame)]

Integrate them so that user tables are shared

http://blog.ashfame.com/2009/07/integrate-bbpress-10-with-wordpress-28/

In WP setting, change the setting that only required users can comment

and then in bbPress disable registrations or redirect them to WP register page

http://blog.ashfame.com/2009/11/disable-bbpress-registrations/

Hope that helps!

[DaddyJ]

Having followed what I presume is the “deep” integration method outlined in various posts here (i.e., replacing the 4 keys with the 8 keys) and gotten WordPress and bbPress to talk to each other, I find that Search in bbPress doesn’t work reliably: some words in a post it refuses to find, others it does. I’m a first-timer to the bbP world and don’t know where to start bug shooting this.

[paulhawke]

Where are we now?

Aside from the questions surrounding integration with WordPress, another of our big questions is “how do I import from _____” (insert a different forum product of your choosing)

Right now the approach is ad-hoc at best: We are handing a PHP script around hand-to-hand that is able to convert a phpBB v2.0.x forum over to bbPress v. 0.9, and if you want to convert a different forum (say, SMF) the accepted wisdom is to install phpBB, convert to that, then convert to bbPress 0.9 and then upgrade.

The official coding standards for WordPress state:

Avoid touching the database directly. If there is a defined function that can get the data you need, use it. Database abstraction (using functions instead of queries) helps keep your code forward-compatible and, in cases where results are cached in memory, it can be many times faster.

As it stands bbPress imports clearly violate that principle by using the script we are passing around.

Solving the problem

Importing data clearly is an example where a strategy pattern solves things in an elegant fashion.

The strategy pattern (also known as the policy pattern) is a particular software design pattern, whereby algorithms can be selected at runtime.

The strategy pattern is useful for situations where it is necessary to dynamically swap the algorithms used in an application. The strategy pattern is intended to provide a means to define a family of algorithms, encapsulate each one as an object, and make them interchangeable. The strategy pattern lets the algorithms vary independently from clients that use them.

More concretely, this means creating a bbPress Import plugin which provides an overall multi-step process, and delegates to an external sub-plugin to retrieve the external datasource specific steps. I would argue that this ought to be a plugin (and remain a plugin rather than being pulled into the core of bbPress) because once you’ve imported from a given external forum, you can deactivate and uninstall the “import” code as its no longer required.

Roadmap

1. We need to create a basic import plugin. — This I have done, it’s experimental and I’d like some more eyes on the code before calling it “done”
2. We need to create import strategies for external forums, starting with phpBB2 — This I have done, by extracting SQL from the script we all pass hand-to-hand. Again, it needs more eyes on the code as a QA step.
3. We need to create import strategies for other external forums, specifically SMF and phpBB3 — this is where the strategy pattern comes into its own – each can be developed independently and combined later. Its also a great place for community input.

Looking further out

The import plugin relies on calling the internal bb_new_post, bb_new_topic, bb_new_forum and to a certain degree the bb_new_user methods. As we move toward bbPress being a plugin to WordPress, these will become the only way to import data, as the script we pass around will become evermore obsolete.

Secondly, WordPress itself has an import framework. I suspect that any “import plugin” we write now will become somewhat obsolete in that timeframe. That said, if we do things right, the import strategies we create might migrate over. What I dont know is the timeframe. Is the bbPress-as-a-plugin-to-Wordpress change close enough on the horizon that we should simply target the WordPress import framework directly?

Thoughts / comments?

[Ashish Kumar (Ashfame)]

BuddyPress 1.2 can install on normal WordPress too and BuddyPress itself offer integrated bbPress forum.

Try WP 2.9.2 + BuddyPress 1.2

[jasbg]

Hi

Been trying to install Buddypress onto a clean BBPress instalation – but it keeps giving me an error:

---

Warning: require_once(WP_PLUGIN_DIR/buddypress/bp-core.php) [function.require-once]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in C:wampwwwbbpressmy-pluginsbuddypressbp-loader.php on line 19

Fatal error: require_once() [function.require]: Failed opening required ‘WP_PLUGIN_DIR/buddypress/bp-core.php’ (include_path=’.;C:php5pear’) in C:wampwwwbbpressmy-pluginsbuddypressbp-loader.php on line 19

---

Does anyone know if this installation is at all possible (clean BBPress + BuddyPress forum) ?

I would like to avoid using WordPress Mu – to keep things as lean (simple) as possible !

Thanks in advance for any advice on the subject !

Jens

btw. – I have for a couple of weeks been doing research on how to run the best and most sufficient frontend bases open posting site (or almost open) – and has ended with bbPress (has 12 different test systems running on wamp and easyphp – among them Word MU – Drupal version 6 and 7 and others. It’s close to chaos for sure)

[deadlyhifi]

Thanks, I will have a look into it. I’m going to be using buddypress soon and therefore registration will be handled via wordpress so don’t want to spend too much time banging my head against a wall.

[Ashish Kumar (Ashfame)]

Create a blank page with the slug forums and it will automatically takes you to the forum on your site

Either you design a matching bbPress theme for WordPress or use deep integration which is quite an overhead if you have a good number of users.

Read this – http://blog.ashfame.com/2010/02/deep-integration-bbpress-wordpress/

and http://blog.ashfame.com/2010/02/bbpress-deep-integration-advantages-disadvantages/

And then decide what you want to do.

[dbneeley]

I spent quite a few years doing marketing and corporate communication, and so far at least I have some basic questions I simply can’t find on the relevant websites. (It’d be very nice if the sites contained some sort of “Why you might want BBPress” or “Why you might want BuddyPress” or even perhaps “Basic requirements”–not to mention “Why you might want to install both BuddyPress and BBPress”.)

I am a complete newcomer to adding forums to a WordPress site, but I am planning to take the leap with a new blog site I am about to launch. A few basic questions, please:

From the looks of BuddyPress, it also offers forums by itself…although this is unclear from their site. What is the advantage, of any, of having BBPress either instead of or in addition to BuddyPress? Also, so far at least I have not found on the BBPress site a requirements listing–will it now work with a straight WordPress install, or is it tied to WordPress MU at this point? (With the upcoming integration of WP and WPMU, at this juncture I simply don’t want to go through the hassle of installing MU.)

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, or advice you can give. Thanks!

[adevigus]

Hello

thanks for your reply. Would be great to get your help.

What exactly can you do for me?

I need the following things done:

create a wordpress – bbpress site

that looks similar to the actual site (skin)

at http://www.cerec.net

transfer all users and post to this new site

if you can do this what would you charge?

Best, Alessandro

new site

[adevigus]

Hello

I’m running a forum on IPB 3.0 I have over 2000 users a d over 12000 posts .. I would like to convert my site to bbpress (especially looking for the WordPress integration)

anybody ready to help me ???

feedbacks are welcome

Alessandro devigus

[Scott Kingsley Clark]

The way this would be handled is that plugins can hook into other plugins. Actions / Filters still work the same between plugins as they do between core.

[usdavid]

Thank you, but I have an existing install of WordPress 2.9.2, with all the defaults including database names. I am trying to add bbPress 1.0.2. I have followed the instructions on the bbPress site for integrating, some hints I received on the WordPress forum referring me to How To Integrate BBPress with WP (http://www.bestwpthemez.com/wordpress/how-to-integrate-bbpress-with-wordpress-mu-2062/), and finally your tutorial. Your tutorial was a little out of the problem as it is an instruction set for clean installs. I followed the link on your page to “Integrate bbpress forum with your wordpress setup” and attempted the Fix Admin Access plugin, no go. Where is the wp_usermeta table located?

I still have the same problem.

Thanks,

David

[staticfrost]

How can I get my bbpress theme to look the same as my actual wordpress site? and how do I make my page link stright to the forums?

[Ashish Kumar (Ashfame)]

Are you sharing user tables too?

If both the installations are fresh, I would say integrate them as per my tutorial – http://blog.ashfame.com/2009/07/integrate-bbpress-10-with-wordpress-28/

[gruff1927]

This is currently a problem for me as well. Like nonegiven above, I need dual language WordPress/bbPress integration, i.e. I need the facility to be able to switch the language of the bbPress forum interface from within the forum interface. Ideally this could tie in to the user’s stated language preference, or the language of the referring webpage.

However, I can only currently change the interface language by changing the settings in the bb_config.php file. This changes the language of the interface globally, which.

Like nonegiven, I’ve tried the bbPress Language Switcher plugin by _ck_ as well as User Languages and these don’t seem to work on v1.

Unfortunately, this undermines the usefulness of bbPress for multilingual websites.

Any chance that this will be on the roadmap for the future?

[usdavid]

I have a 2.9.2 installation of WordPress, and it is installed in the root directory of my website. I installed bbPress in a subfolder named “forum” and followed the integration instructions. Now I can’t login in to the bbPress forum in anyway. I get the error message “User does not exist.” I am trying to login using “admin” and the password is the same for both.

[flowiesowieso]

Hello,

I’m using bbpress 0.8.3.1 at my site. Since there is a 1.0 release I’ve been wanting to update my bbpress. But to make sure everything works fine I tried the update on my localhost with Wampserver. Once I follow the install instructions I’ve been asked to create a new bb-config. Filling in the 4 steps gives me an error saying:

Installation errors

Forums already exist!

Key master email not sent!

Installation log

Referrer is OK, beginning installation…

Step 1 – Creating database tables

>>> Database is already installed!!!

Step 2 – WordPress integration (optional)

>>> Integration not enabled

Step 3 – Site settings

>>> Site name: forum

>>> Site address (URL): http://localhost/forum/

>>> From email address: myadres@gmail.com

>>> Key master created

>>>>>> Username: admin

>>>>>> Email address: myadres@gmail.com

>>>>>> Password:

>>> There are existing forums in this database.

>>>>>> No new forum created.

>>> Key master email not sent!

There were some errors encountered during installation!

If I go to http://localhost/forum it says;

Deprecated: Assigning the return value of new by reference is deprecated in I:wampwwwforumbb-settings.php on line 186

Deprecated: Assigning the return value of new by reference is deprecated in I:wampwwwforumbb-includesbackpressfunctions.wp-object-cache.php on line 108

Deprecated: Assigning the return value of new by reference is deprecated in I:wampwwwforumbb-includesbackpresspomomo.php on line 171

Deprecated: Assigning the return value of new by reference is deprecated in I:wampwwwforumbb-includesfunctions.bb-l10n.php on line 484

Could not determine site URI

I’ve no idea were to resolve this problem. Can someone point me in the right direction? I’m quite scared to do this for my live verion of the forum. Or shouldn’t I and is the problem probably with trying it on my localhost with Wampserver?

[paulhawke]

In theory you would make a backup of your my-plugins and my-themes directories. Then, delete the files in your existing bbPress install. Next step, run through the famous “5 minute install” of WordPress, and download the bbPress plugin and activate it. That’s the obvious part.

I would assume that a bbPress plugin would create a new top-level menu in the WordPress admin area. In a brand-new install, this would allow you to create the bbPress specific data structures in your database or to migrate existing bbPress data from an old version. After that step, the bbPress admin menu would switch to showing admin options for forums / topics / posts, etc.

My guess (if data structures remain largely the same) is that the “installation” of the plugin would merely write a WordPress option value telling the bbPress plugin what its database prefix is, and all the data already there would appear automatically.

Assuming that a bbPress plugin is connected to its data, it would need to be connected to the GUI somewhere. My guess is that you would create a WordPress static page and its content would be a short-code that the bbPress plugin replaces with its entire display.

[Il Gatto]

I solved my problem by reading this forum post:

https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/wp-integration-coockie-does-not-work/page/2

actually it’s not necessary to set the blog and the forum without the “www”

it worked for me having the blog and the forum specified starting with www.

I’ve spent hours working on this… the solution was to rename the keys and salt cookies hashes with the BB_ prefix – something that wasn’t too clear thing to do!

I have to say this, BBPress is awesome for theming (and that’s why I love it) but sucks at many forum features that should be built (or deactivable if someone wants a very light forum) and most importantly sucks at integration with WordPress… which really does not make sense to me since it’s been around for… how long…? 2 years?

I’ve read about people debating if BBPress should become a stand alone application or a core plugin for WordPress… I’m a wordpress user and here’s my feedback: please, please, please make this a wordpress plugin ASAP; If I just want a lightweight forum there are dozens over there to chose; what I need as a wordpress user is something robust to create a community in my blog and integrate any possible function I already have in bbpress

I love the work done so far with bbpress and I love the application (otherwise I wouldn’t be here!) and it’s a shame that this project feels so abandoned

[paulhawke]

@kevinjohngallagher

… but if you give the data-structure to a DBA or heck, a basic developer they’ll scratch their heads.

The datastructures underpinning both WordPress and bbPress are shocking to me, as a senior level developer. Just because you can do a thing doesnt mean you should do a thing; just because you have “*_meta” tables that store key/value pairs (that is, post_meta, user_meta, topic_meta, etc) doesnt mean that you should use them for absolutely everything. Tables like those are a commercial DBA’s worst nightmare.

There is no way to set any forum as read only, or hidden, or anything else. Forums don’t have settings, and why is that? because they’re exactly the same as categories in wordpress. Which suits the current need of one type of forum, and that’s one that has no need for parentage (such as this forum and the WordPress support forums).

bbPress was originally designed to be simple and lightweight. There are heavy-weight PHP based forums out there and I dont believe that bbPress was designed to compete. Lean, mean and simple seem to be the guiding principles, and it shows. The design of the code is very much the minimal working set you need for a basic forum. Problem is, people expect more, so you get to the point of needing a half-dozen plugins to reach the new “baseline” expectation. Suggests to me that certain plugins need to be [a] pulled into core and need some decent data-modelling done before getting released as “core” functionality.

Hey has anyone used XML_RPC to post to their forums yet? it’s awesome…

ROFLMAO

I’d like to stress i’m not advocating a massive change to the core, honestly I’m just up for discussion. I’m really just wanting to know people’s feelings or thoughts on this. Far too much data is not readily/intrinsically/obviously available especially when said data is on a predefined 1-to-1 relationship.

I would be willing to go through and document the database, including a nice clear diagram. I would also be happy to talk (deeply) about database design issues. It wouldnt be hard to pull together a patch to submit to Automattic to enhance the internal data structures. The issue I have though, is the number of plugins that would need to be massaged after such an event. Still, I’d be up for it.

@johnhiler

My general sense is that most of what you describe can be pulled off with plugins…

Adding the end-user functionality, yes, but the issue isnt so much the functionality as the data-structures a plugin needs to wrangle to accomplish its desired purpose. Right now the low-grade of data model design hurts.

@Marius-

I would love to have a dynamic sidebar I could add or remove things with ease. Have polls on the sidebar, not arrested in a topic, and maybe a chatbox instead of having an “Off Topic” category or thread.

I would like to see all of the major pages in bbPress be “widget enabled” – the “forums list” and the “topics list” simply be widgets, the heat-cloud for tags be another and so on. That would allow me to create an alternative display of topics, and drop it onto my own forum wihtout needing to hack the template.

Not to be too controversial here, but if/when bbPress becomes a WordPress plugin, we would get that functionality for free, pretty much.

I really enjoy the beautiful minimalism of BBPress, and I dont want it to get more complicated.

Amen! Preach it brother!

[fifthhouse]

Could someone say something about how it would work with existing bbpress sites if bbpress becomes a plugin? I assume there would be some kind of conversion function to change your site over to the plugin?

[kevinjohngallagher]

Kind of mate

In fact, I’m sure that a lot if not everything bbPress related could be done with plugins, but it comes to a point in time where a certain number of plugins are needed as standard for the forum to function properly.

I mean, “forum_is_category” and “topic_voices” are in the core now, but rather than being in the core tables, are still added and fiddled around with as meta data, so there’s always an INNER JOIN needed or additional SQL calls.

Call up a topic, in SQL, simple. How many Posts? there’s the data. How many tags? there’s the data. Heck, last poster’s name? sure! How many voices? oh hell no! I don’t keep that data here. It’s a secret!! Even though it’s a one to one relationship and it’s in the core, we keep that somewhere totally different, and you need to come up with a totally different method of getting that info. Ha, i mean, just cos it’s in the core, doesn’t mean it’s laid out prof… well we don’t use it on the WP support forums.

I’m not suggesting anything overtly Machiavellian at all, please don’t assume that and if I’ve given that impression I’m sorry (sometimes i jokes dont translate well), but if you give the data-structure to a DBA or heck, a basic developer they’ll scratch their heads. There is no really good reason for something like “forum_is_category” or “topic_views” to be held in a separate table as a data row, other than the one major forum where it’s not used. And that’s ok, he who pays the piper calls the tune, but that’s a core issue.

Realistically, thats not a coding issue, it’s a perspective issue. In order to get at the data, we need to call additional database information that we don’t need. Why do we need that overhead, even if it’s small.

Deep down, I can’t believe I need a plugin for my forum to be able to say it has posts underneath it though. That isn’t a bug and it isn’t intended, it just wasn’t thought of.

Same with Mass deleting of users / topics / posts. Or the ability to be able to add any form of ordering or filtering to any of them. Just wasn’t thought of.

I can understand a plugin with a specific purpose in this field (I’ve written one that marks any “.ru” and “.cn” user as bozo automatically), that’s cool. But I still think it’s daft that I have to manually search the user list every day for members with certain words in it – that stuff became bog standard on the internet a long time ago.

You know, once i search for (and find) a user, it then takes me 7 clicks and 4 different pages to delete the user. And there is no en-mass option. 7 clicks and 4 pages!!!! That’s not a ‘plugin or not plugin’ issue, that’s no PM/BA/IA/common-sense issue. I mean, really, having to leave the admin area to interact with a user? They got rid of that idea in wordpress almost 3 years ago.

I don’t want to flog a dead horse, but now that WordPress isn’t being ported to backPress (at least in the next version minimum), can you imagine the difference that rolling in a moderation suite or really any of _ck_’s non-fluff (smilies, bbcode) plugins into the core would have made in the 14 months between 0.9 and 1.0 being released? Hey has anyone used XML_RPC to post to their forums yet? it’s awesome…

=====================================================================

Is the concern that since the data design isn’t optimized for inherited forums, the query count will go up?

Yeah, kind of. It’s more that it’s already gone up, and as themes become more complex, it’ll go up again.

Let me give an example, and it’s a walkthrough – there could be code optimization.

To load the last forum poster/post (and btw this is for the singualar, not the child, which would multiply this by each child forum), you effectively are looking up the topic with the last date that’s attatched to that forum, and then look up the last post that’s attatched to that topic. Ok, so that’s 2 additional SQL calls for every forum thats displayed in the forum list.

(EDIT: actually, I’m confident it’s just 1 INNER JOIN SQL call now, but it’s still not needed really).

Now on a forum like this, or on WP support forums, thats only 6 forums. ok, so 6 additional calls total. Meh, not fussed.

But do you see how this doesn’t scale? On one of my forums, a football one, we’ve a “forum” for every football team in the UK. There’s no “latest” list, as we want people to talk in their own club’s section. Thing is that’s:

England

– Prem

– – 22 teams

– (Another 4 divisions of 24 teams)

Scotland

– SPL

– – 12 teams

– (Another 2 divisions of 16 teams)

It was facing meltdown every now and then, and I realised why, I’m placing an additional 150 SQL calls every time I want to display the list of forums, simply to find out the last post in a forum (and that’s NOT including the code needed if I was to respect genealogy).

Here’s the thing though, the TOPIC table has a column called: topic_last_post_id. Do you know why? Because it allows an inner join rather than an additional SQL call. Very sensible. Of course, it just wasn’t transposed to the bit that a certain support forums didn’t use.

If we applied the same logic to “forums” as to the topics, heck even put it in the meta data table, we’d add 1 SQL command in total when a new post was added, instead of 1 SQL per forum listed per pageload per user. Now, i could write a plugin to do that, but it’s not solving the issue, it’s just papering over the cracks in the datastructure.

I’m sure there will be some people reading this and they wont get that that i’m talking about data structure and optomization, and not specifically about “last forum poster”. I’m not advocaating category heavy forums or flat file forums, i’m saying that we’ve got some real data holes, and i think we should discuss them. How long until i’m told to leave bbPress because on some of my websites I use it differently to someone who has relatively few uesers and so isn’t hitting any of these issues? I bet not long.

I am not in any way having a go at any current/ Past developer/ development team/ Santa nor the Easter bunny. But the data is set up in a way in which it is ideally suited for 1 type of forum, and not for any of the others. Thats cool, but if bbPress is going to be a WPplugin, then this doesn’t matter. If there’s going to be a standalone version, then this sort of thing really needs to be looked at.

There’s countless examples of this; I’m just going with the one that people can replicate easily.

=========================================

I’d like to stress i’m not advocating a massive change to the core, honestly I’m just up for discussion. I’m really just wanting to know people’s feelings or thoughts on this. Far too much data is not readily/intrinsically/obviously available especially when said data is on a predefined 1-to-1 relationship.

Maybe if the data structure wasn’t so wishy-washy at points, there might be more plugin developers, or themes that looked a little more like the themes available on any of the other forums.

=========================================

John you’re also right that a “moderation suite” could be done via a plugin, my thoughts on that though would be “XML-RPC is a standard feature, but moderating my forum is a 3rd party plugin”?

I don’t think that making Forums read only on a selective basis is the work of a plugin, thats integral to how a forum works. Same with certain forums being visible to certain people.

The ability to move/sticky/resolved a topic/post from inside the admin area isn’t the job of a plugin, thats the job of the admin area. otherwise, what the point of the admin area

I’m sure there are things that I think should be standard that many other don’t; and vice versa. I don’t want bloatware, i’m not suggesting we copy phpBB or anything else, but i also think that just because we can have a plugin to do a job that we should always have a plugin to do a job. Also, just because something works with the current datastructure, doesn’t mean it’s even close to optimal.

=================================================================

Phew, longer than i wanted. Probably wrote many things which people will get annoyed at. Then again, i’m sure some idiot will be along in a minute demanding that we stop talking about this and include Facebook Connect, Polls, Smileys etc. I wonder how long that will take before my data structure conversation gets it’s first “ZOMG i cant code so ignore data structurz & make me XXX feature”.