Forum Replies Created
In reply to: Tags broken on bbpress.org?
Try this plugin – it should do the trick!In reply to: Forum under attack, user-approval plugin won't work
“I am supremely interested in the performance aspects and confident we can make the plugin scale better than bbPress does today or did in the 0.7-0.9 line.”
I would be really amazed if this came to pass! WordPress leaves quite a footprint, so adding plugins to the mix would seem to increase that even more?
That said, I’m definitely excited to see how you increase performance and scalability!
“Shared-hosts are the bread and butter of WordPress usage. The good news is servers are way more powerful than when I wrote the first bbPress, and we can take advantage of that to provide a richer experience.”
This is definitely true. It’s kind of the Microsoft approach: grow the OS core, and lean on the hardware handle the growing codebase. It works for smaller sites that don’t hit scaling limits and for larger sites that can afford bigger hardware.
“The uncertainty of testing the interactions of N factorial plugins is daunting and gets untenable quickly.”
Plugin interaction is definitely a concern. But in practice, I have rarely if ever had plugins conflict with each other.
“Better to draw a line in the sand and promise the user ‘these things will always work together.'”
I think the “promise” model depends on having a large and growing team of developers actively managing the core. That hasn’t been the case in the past, so moving stuff into the core has actually slowed down development of the platform quite a bit. Perhaps things will be different in the future…
In any case, even with developers available to help build up the core – I’d still prefer to have a model that embraces plugin developers, and then has specific plugins blessed as official branches. This is where more social forms of source control like GitHub may be better than Subversion; plugins wouldn’t be dependent on just one developer, since anyone can seamlessly create and post a new branch. It’s much more like the pastebin stuff that’s constantly going on here in the bbPress forums.
Thanks for the reply!
“johnhiler, if you like plugin-centric development, you should love the bbPress plugin so far (hopefully) Hopefully it’s able to walk the line and offer the best to both.”
@John James Jacoby – I’d love to hear more! What do you mean?
“As for bundling multiple plugins with core — ultimately it’s a cop-out. If something is good enough to be included with the core download, put it in core!”
I’m a big fan of a plugin-centric approach to platform development. I would take the bbPress platform and add a ton more hooks and filters to it. Then I would document the heck out of it, and refactor as much of the core into external plugins as possible. That way, plugin developers would have a lean and mean core to program to.
It sounds like you prefer a core-centric approach. I have concerns that both WordPress and bbPress are increasingly becoming too heavyweight to support shared hosting (or to scale for larger sites, without expensive hardware). But perhaps I am underestimating the power of the dropping cost of hardware and of aggressive output caching.
I understand your general framework to approaching core features, and understand that it’s been successful for you with WordPress. It’s kind of similar to how Microsoft approaches integrating application features into its own core Operating System. Both platforms have been successful, so I can’t knock the approach.
I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on this one. I’m just a big believer in a plugin-centric model. I think WordPress has succeeded in spite of its aggressive core-centric model, not because of it. But I understand your philosophy, and respect your right to enforce it on future versions of bbPress.
I think most developers who run highly trafficked websites will prefer keeping stuff out of the core, to minimize bloat and to maximize scaling. Whereas most casual webmasters running a smaller forum will want as much in the core as possible.
It’s a natural tension. I think the best way to split the difference is to keep the core lean and mean, and then to have a set of pre-packaged plugins that are included in the main download that can be turned on (or can even default to being on). I think WordPress experimented with this direction last year? Not sure where it ended up though.
A few things were moved out of bbPress plugins into core, and it hasn’t really gone that well. “Subscribe to topic” was added to the core, and then promptly had a problem with spammed topics being blasted out over email. It’s a lot easier to apply a patch to a plugin than it is to get the patch approved in the core.
The “Page Links for bbPress” plugin was also moved into the core in 1.0. There were a number of code inefficiencies in that code that are now locked into the core. There was a recent patch released for the plugin version of Page Links (only for 0.9) that fixed this; that’s an example of how it can be helpful to keep non-essential stuff out of core.
“I don’t get what you all want bbPress to do differently that would even require a new standalone version. I’ve asked that before, and there’s no answer; just frustration.”
I thought there were several pretty solid answers above, but I’ll give my take here. For me, it’s mostly about performance. bbPress (especially the 0.9 branch) is fairly fast. As the bbPress frontpage puts it, “bbPress is lean, mean and ready to take on any job you throw at it.” I agree!
WordPress is powerful and has many fantastic plugins and themes. But I don’t think many people would argue that it is lean and mean. It requires caching in order to have a reasonable number of queries and/or loading time.
When someone asks me if they should use WordPress, I always recommend they use a heavyweight hosting package. With bbPress, this hasn’t been the case. Now with a plugin version, that will change.
In any case, I’m not your target audience: I use bbPress to run larger sites. Most people who want a forum will have small forums. They will be perfectly happy with a bbPress plugin – in fact, happier because it will be easier to integrate.
But it won’t scale easily without lots of caching and expensive hardware. That’s why I prefer a standalone.
“In all honesty, all this back and forth is tiring, and all it’s doing is taking the team of people that are here to help keep bbPress alive, and make us the enemy to the people that are just happy to see life again. That, and it’s taken our ability to communicate news to the bbPress community away from us, and instead forced us to try and put out this fire for the past 4 days.”
I totally respect your right to take bbPress and “buddyPress” it into a WordPress plugin. My only request has been to use a different name.In reply to: Changing Post Dates
The “Edit Post Attributes” plugin lets you edit timestamps and even usernames!
I use it on several sites and haven’t had an issue with it yet… highly recommended.
I completely support Automattic’s investment in a new WordPress forum plugin!
That said, I think it would avoid a lot of confusion if it were named something else besides “bbPress”.
I am a bit confused. Are you suggesting that plugin developers aren’t contributing to bbPress?
I have funded the development of dozens of bbPress plugins, almost all of which are available on the plugins tab as open source. They are just not released under my name, as I didn’t do the programming.
I have gone out of my way not to bash on bbPress on the forums, and to be supportive of the platform. I have 19 pages of posts on the bbPress forums, mostly answering questions from users.
I don’t think I deserve the comments you directed at me. That said, I wish you all the best with your new project.
It’s pretty dismissive to compare an open source project to cars, turntables and crock pots. bbPress is not a “hobby” for me. I have invested years of my life and tens of thousands of dollars in the platform. I’ve sponsored plugins, worked with developers, and answered help requests. It’s been a big part of my life, and my career.
This is big news to deliver, and I wish that Matt had delivered it personally. Or at least weighed in on it on this thread.
This proposed transition has been very badly handled. I am not even referring to the past year or so, or Matt’s posts in these forums or his speeches elsewhere. I am referring specifically to this proposed transition.
Why not just announce the separate WordPress plugin project and use a new name – why use the same name, and confuse users and antagonize this thriving community?
“With that said, bbPress is going to be a plugin for WordPress going forward. The name is staying the same, as much as I know that pains some of you to hear.”
You guys are free to make bbPress into a plugin; it’s your programmer team and trademark. But if existing bbPress plugins and themes will not be compatible at all with the new WordPress plugin, then why give it a confusingly similar name? That’s just begging for users to get confused.
If you want to use a similar name, you could call the new software BoardPress or something? Please reconsider the idea to recycle the bbPress name for a completely new project. Or at least, it’d be great to hear some of the rationale for recycling the bbPress name for this separate project.
@pagal – Sorry, I am not for hire. But there are some strong developers on the forums and I’m sure one of them can help you!
@mikewelling: We edited the “Support Forum” plugin and edited it to create custom categories. Then we created a bunch of forums – and registered a bunch of views that crossed the categories with the forums, like this:
Good luck!In reply to: bbPress Themes
Your best bet would probably be to find a premium WordPress theme that you like and then purchase that. Then I’m sure you could find someone to convert it to bbPress for you for a reasonably low rate.
I just thought that was an unfair shot at Sam, is all.
It’s kind of depressing visiting bbPress lately. A lot of posts end up turning into discussions about how bbPress leadership has failed us.
I used to answer support questions on a regular basis but it’s not fun to do so when so many threads turn relentlessly negative.
Just some thoughts,
By the bbPress documentation site… are you referring to Sam’s personal wiki that he set up before he joined Automattic?
I’ve done something very similar using separate (but user integrated) installs of WordPress and bbPress.
Here’s the blog:
Here are the boards:
And here is a support forum:
You don’t need to add an extra column to restrict support access – you can use Roles and “Hidden Forums” to pull that off.
I’m actually using 7 separate bbPress installs for that site, along with two WordPress installs and some custom code. Just follow the instructions on integrating users between WordPress and bbPress, and wash and repeat for each additional bbPress install.
Good luck!In reply to: What. The. Heck. Is. Going. On!
There’s some real passion here, which is great! There’s nothing stopping any of us from forking the code… that’s how WordPress was started after all. A fork of b2.
I want to go back to an important point that was raised earlier.
Matt isn’t taking us all out to dinner?!??In reply to: How to disable Favorites TAB ?
Yah unfortunately it’s not a plugin… so you can’t easily turn it off. You can just rip references to favorites out of your themes:In reply to: BUG: bbPress 0.9 download not working
I’ve had this problem when downloading plugins while signed out… if I sign it, I’ve noticed it tends to work?
The issue happens more often than it usually would for me, b/c the plugins install uses 0.8.3 and isn’t signin integrated with the main forum (which uses the latest version).
At least, I think that signing in will fix the downloads! It could just be random chance that ever time I’ve signed in before, the downloads have started working again!In reply to: When bbpress 1.0.3?