[ZKuJoe]

I originally used WordPress for my blog but now I use bbPress for my blog. I have no plans on ever installing WordPress again since bbPress acts as my blog while functioning like a forum.

If bbPress was formed into a plugin instead of a standalone script, I will continue using it and do me and my team will do our own coding/bug fixes.

[Erlend]

But you certainly are not going to get anyone who is NOT using WordPress to install WordPress just to create a forum. There are far better options out there.

You’re probably right. Yet allow me to give an example of how major plugins like bbPress and BuddyPress complement WordPress in a way that greatly adds to its appeal (i.e. grows the customer base beyond those interested in WordPress)

Much like WordPress, our project (jMonkeyEngine) is a continuation of someone else’s work. When we picked up the reins of the jmonkeyengine.com website, we were stuck with three separate content systems (SMF, DokuWiki, WordPress) and a mess of custom code. We looked at several options, like:

– Extend SMF (no doubt the heart of our community activities) into a full-scale CMS

– Tie all systems together with a solution like Atlassian’s Crowd

– Replace our custom front page with Joomla! and use JFusion to tie all four tightly together.

– Replace everything with a widely extended Joomla!

We practically tried all of those options and more in practice, either in testing environments or on our live site. Meanwhile I’d been looking at complete ‘community solutions’, like Elgg, OpenWack, JomSocial, BuddyPress…

(I definitely looked at Drupal as well, but they just didn’t seem to have anything near as simple as say JomSocial that just goes ‘boom, now you can start build your community).

Then bbPress came to BuddyPress, and I made a decision. I proposed an overhaul and we got moving:

http://www.jmonkeyengine.com/forum/index.php?topic=13934.0

The only reason we’re not spamming press-boards with ‘look at us!’ links yet is because we made the decision to move everything over at once, and that includes the risky decision of adopting the BuddyPress-Wiki plugin (every other essential has been covered by core features) to replace our DokuWiki. With D.P. Cartwright’s dedicated help we’re just about there though.

Erm, point ahoy!

So the point I’m trying to make is, we never stopped to consider WordPress as a CMS, until BuddyPress arrived as the major complement to fulfill our every need in one package, as opposed to 20+ plugins. Having used WordPress for my own portfolio page and general sandbox play I already knew how intuitive (extremely so when compared to Joomla!) and easy to extend it is. When the last remaining piece of the puzzle arrived, the choice was a no-brainer. I imagine many will come to the same realization with bbPress.

I know I did not prove you wrong; I just figured people might find this brief case study interesting.

[Martin Hasan]

Here goes nothing…

The other day after upgrading to WordPress 3 I decided to create a new user, delete de old “admin” user and set the right permissions to the new user.

Now the problem is that I’ve integrated wordpress and bbpress. When I login to the forum, it doesn’t recognize the new user as admin. Therefore I can’t access the bbpress admin section.

When I go to forum/bb-admin/ it just takes me back to the forum’s index.

Is there a way to change this?

[wtfmatt3]

@JJJ hell no you won’t. Just ask Joomla. And Mambo. And…

This is the end of bbpress. This is what happens when you have a company of less than 20 people, all juvenile suck-ups, making long-term decisions. They just don’t get it.

If man-child Matt won’t publicly admit it, then it must be true. You should go hang out with Mark Zuckerberg you guys are perfect for each other.

[John James Jacoby]

johnhiler, part of us using WordPress’s built in API and architecture means we’re actually leaving turned off a lot of functionality that could easily be turned on, filtered, changed, or added to with actions.

Without it being too over the top, we’re trying to plan ahead and put actions and filters where I think I would use them myself. Since most of what we do for clients is develop custom plugins to change the way WordPress functions, we should be able to apply that experience to bbPress.

One of the things we’ve struggled on with BuddyPress, is how to make plugins, for plugins. Since plugins don’t have an internal dependency like there is on CSS or JS, we’ve had to filter and action our way into a workable solution.

So while bbPress itself is a plugin, the plan is for other plugins to be able to sneak in and change bbPress behavior before it loads, or be able to ‘plug in’ the same as always. So bbPress will be its own core, but also modular and pluggable.

All this, while striving to be as light as possible. Our work is cut out for us.

[John James Jacoby]

I think if there was such a thing as optimism police, they would live in these forums.

I also think, the people we will win over, are everyone that thinks this is the worst thing ever to happen since burnt bread.

[_ck_]

Oh come on. Is it even a question that as a plugin for the largest blog software (both in memory/disk size and number of users) it will be popular? I mean was that honestly a worry?

You’ll probably exceed bbPress standalones 3-year download numbers for BOTH versions combined in just a few months with front-page advertising on wordpress.org

But you certainly are not going to get anyone who is NOT using WordPress to install WordPress just to create a forum. There are far better options out there.

I mean the hosting requirements alone for someone running WP + bbpress plugin will be significant. There is absolutely no way they will be able to run an active forum without caching.

I fully expect Automattic to acquire a caching plugin and start including it with the core in 2010, especially since it meets Matt’s 80% use requirement.

[ZKuJoe]

Thanks for the feedback and the link to the plugin but I don’t want it to look or feel like a blog, just act like a blog. I prefer the thread/post structure over the entry/comment structure. I was originally using WordPress and had a MyBB forum on the same site, then I switched over to just a MyBB forum with a Blog plugin, but then found that bbPress felt like both a blog and forum without requiring different installations to achieve both. I just created certain categories that only I could post in (the “My” areas) for my “blog areas” and the rest are open for free discussion.

I am working on getting the first post of the latest topic to appear on the front page but I have to many other development projects on my plate at the moment.

[johnhiler]

“Shared-hosts are the bread and butter of WordPress usage. The good news is servers are way more powerful than when I wrote the first bbPress, and we can take advantage of that to provide a richer experience.”

This is definitely true. It’s kind of the Microsoft approach: grow the OS core, and lean on the hardware handle the growing codebase. It works for smaller sites that don’t hit scaling limits and for larger sites that can afford bigger hardware.

“The uncertainty of testing the interactions of N factorial plugins is daunting and gets untenable quickly.”

Plugin interaction is definitely a concern. But in practice, I have rarely if ever had plugins conflict with each other.

“Better to draw a line in the sand and promise the user ‘these things will always work together.'”

I think the “promise” model depends on having a large and growing team of developers actively managing the core. That hasn’t been the case in the past, so moving stuff into the core has actually slowed down development of the platform quite a bit. Perhaps things will be different in the future…

In any case, even with developers available to help build up the core – I’d still prefer to have a model that embraces plugin developers, and then has specific plugins blessed as official branches. This is where more social forms of source control like GitHub may be better than Subversion; plugins wouldn’t be dependent on just one developer, since anyone can seamlessly create and post a new branch. It’s much more like the pastebin stuff that’s constantly going on here in the bbPress forums.

Thanks for the reply!

John

[Matt Mullenweg]

Shared-hosts are the bread and butter of WordPress usage. The good news is servers are way more powerful than when I wrote the first bbPress, and we can take advantage of that to provide a richer experience.

I like the idea of plugin-centric development from a theoretical point of view, and obviously plugins have been at the core of WordPress’ success, but I think it can be taken too far and take away from the user experience.

It’s about taking responsibility. Even though you could break down almost every feature of WordPress into a plugin and distribute everything bundled, and even activate a bunch of them by default I think you lose a “buck stops here” for other developers to target. The uncertainty of testing the interactions of N factorial plugins is daunting and gets untenable quickly.

Better to draw a line in the sand and promise the user “these things will always work together.”

[Matt Mullenweg]

I also remember 0.7 fondly — along with Akismet it was the released product with the highest percentage of my code. Last year I shifted most of my code to internal tools, and this year that has waned even more due to the force of nature that is Mr Momrik my Technical Assistant.

That said, there is minimalist-beautiful, and minimalist-useless. Even Ferarris have stereo systems. I think we can find the balance between the two even though it might mean we misstep in one direction or the other along the way.

I agree with you more than you. In hindsight BackPress was a mistake. Its goal was to unify WP and bbP development, and it just ended up crippling bbPress with needless abstraction and didn’t actually generate any user-critical improvements, like being able to use WordPress themes.

[willcrain]

I would like to have a sidebar on my forum that has several lists; categories, recent posts, most popular posts, but I am not sure how to pull that data over from wp to bbpress.

Are there any plugins that i can use to generate these lists? i already have the list set up in my wordpress theme sidebar where they use js to open and close the list. so i am really looking for something that i can customize the list to match that.

I have been looking through the forum to see if i can find the solution to this but am still unable to do so, so any help/direction would be appreciated. thanks

[John James Jacoby]

I think bbPress as a plugin is going to win a lot of people once it’s ready and out in the wild.

Erlend, will try my darnedest to deliver

[John James Jacoby]

johnhiler, if you like plugin-centric development, you should love the bbPress plugin so far (hopefully) Hopefully it’s able to walk the line and offer the best to both.

What is a plugin and what is core is always one of those topics that tends to change and drift with the times. 6 years ago having properly formatted links to someones blogroll was considered important enough for WordPress core, but chances are people are using that functionality less and less as time goes on and people are able to connect to people more quickly and organically.

kevinjohn, we haven’t tackled it in the plugin version yet, but the difference between a ‘category’ and a ‘forum’ will be fairly distinct once we get it going. My experience working with the Categories Hierarchy project back in my phpBB days taught me the importance of handling the way those types of data behave.

[johnhiler]

“As for bundling multiple plugins with core — ultimately it’s a cop-out. If something is good enough to be included with the core download, put it in core!”

I’m a big fan of a plugin-centric approach to platform development. I would take the bbPress platform and add a ton more hooks and filters to it. Then I would document the heck out of it, and refactor as much of the core into external plugins as possible. That way, plugin developers would have a lean and mean core to program to.

It sounds like you prefer a core-centric approach. I have concerns that both WordPress and bbPress are increasingly becoming too heavyweight to support shared hosting (or to scale for larger sites, without expensive hardware). But perhaps I am underestimating the power of the dropping cost of hardware and of aggressive output caching.

I understand your general framework to approaching core features, and understand that it’s been successful for you with WordPress. It’s kind of similar to how Microsoft approaches integrating application features into its own core Operating System. Both platforms have been successful, so I can’t knock the approach.

I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on this one. I’m just a big believer in a plugin-centric model. I think WordPress has succeeded in spite of its aggressive core-centric model, not because of it. But I understand your philosophy, and respect your right to enforce it on future versions of bbPress.

Best,

John

[elbuagnin]

Hello,

I’m working on a site with full integration of WordPress & bbPress. Everything is working great! (After a fair bit of fiddling! )

So now I’m just working on cosmetics. I want to show both WordPress & bbPress admin links in the header. So I want to make it obvious which is which.

Is there anyway to get bb_admin_link to output something different than ‘Admin’. Does it take more arguments other than ‘after’ and ‘before’? Or do I need to hard-code it somewhere?

I’ve looked around a bit on the site, but I haven’t found much info on this function.

Thanks!

[wtfmatt2]

@Matt… so, are you planning on killing bbpress standalone or not? Why do you keep ignoring the question that 90% of the members here are wondering?

And what about the future of bbpress.org? Even an “I’m not sure yet” would be helpful.

It blows my mind that you don’t see the massive potential for an improved standalone version. You don’t even have to be that involved…

Screwing bbpress into a dumbed down plugin will just be another “Fireboard” like it was on Joomla… anyone remember? Complete chaos and confusion. You can’t try to please all demands with a middle-ground decision that accomplishes none of the above.

It only makes sense that there is a bbpress standalone with powerful plugins, that can integrate with WP. If you so desperately want a plugin, than make it a tiny lightweight little bugger that is for “mini forums” or something.

And again, where does this all leave backpress?

[Erlend]

Is there any timetable when the bbPress plugin project would be ready?

I’ve set my hopes for a Christmas Alpha

[Mark McWilliams]

Is there any timetable when the bbPress plugin project would be ready?

It’ll be a while yet I’m sure? If we go anything by the 1.2 Milestone on the bbPress Trac, it says another 5 months away, and remember that at the moment we’ve only got Pete Mall and JJJ working on it!

@Matt Mullenweg: Glad to see you around here again!

[Milan Dinić]

I just got the message about having the upgrade the database (due to subscribe to topic being added and a database change.)

It seems that Matt listened to my request. Thank you, Matt!

When editing a reply, the “Notify me of followup posts via e-mail” text appears twice (once below the “Allowed markup” and once above.)

I think this is related to theme, I didn’t happen on my installation with Kakumei.

Also, followup is probably a lot like the work “alot”. Should be “follow up” I think. The whole sentence might need to be reworded. They’re not posts, they’re replies, right?

I made a patch that introduced this sentence and I copied it from popular WordPress plugin Subscribe to Comments. That of course doesn’t mean that it can’t be changed to any better one.

I think “Topic” should probably not be capitalized in the sidebar link. Just a suggestion.

This is how Matt made it when he introduced this feature in December (and how it was displayed here before update to 2.0), I didn’t change it in my patches.

[hpguru]

bbPress plugin for WordPress with reply in WordPress theme reply form with Akismet maybe a good idea.

[hpguru]

Is there any timetable when the bbPress plugin project would be ready?

[Matt Mullenweg]

Sorry the site broke — I didn’t notice and no one emailed me, or if they did I didn’t read it. It is inevitable things will break when you’re making improvements (WordPress.org was down for a few hours last week, several times) but we endeavor to fix it as soon as possible when aware of the problem.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Thanks for starting a new thread. Some of your sentences are unclear to me, so if I misunderstand a question just rephrase it and I’ll do my best to answer it.

The WordPress.org integration is done through a shared user table and the same settings for cookies. It is a bit of a hack right now because WP and bbPress have a different idea of how those global tables should look and fight to modify them, which is what took down WordPress.org the other day. (It’s very slow to modify the schema of a user table with hundreds of thousands of rows.)

As for running multiple instances of bbPress, on different domains even, we actually did a fair amount of work for that (was going to call it mubb.org) and it’s the code that currently powers TalkPress.com. However it’s not release quality and it becomes moot because once bbPress is a full WP plugin you get multi-site for free from WP’s built-in MS feature, so you could run as many bbPresses as you like from a single install.

[_KB_]

Reference to your post # 71333

_KB_, could you start a new thread with any outstanding questions you have?

First of all thanks for giving me a chance, I’ve a question and some thoughts! hope you’ll like it.

Question:-

About Multiple Integration? (One WordPress Vs Multiple bbPress Standalone)

Description:

Currently people are just able to set integration with one wordpress to one bbpress install,If they want to run multiple boards then they are stick to install multple bbpress installs, after that they are just unable to set cookies integration over multiple boards ( Shared users integration and database integration works perfect, its not a big deal!). Yep, You’ve done it!, If I login to my http://wordpress.org/support/ then I don’t need to login again to WP Blackberry, WP iOS, or WP for Android Forums, I can still see my online status there. Can you shed some light how did you set it? ( Just Cookies integration over multiple boards).

Thoughts:

#-1:- Please don’t kill the bbpress standalone version, after bb-plugin’s announcement. Because sometimes some people just want to run a 100% community board ( without wordpres or any other platform), then this bbpress standalone version will be perfect for their needs.

#-2:- bbpress-plugin version should have a functionality; One bbpress per blog in wordpress mu

#-3, For standalone it may call BBMU.

Thanks, I’m really curious for your response.

Cheers