[kevinjohngallagher]

Hi Taeo!

Thanks for the link, but I feel that you’re way off base.

For those who can’t skip it, here’s the WPtavern recap:

http://www.wptavern.com/mattnote-from-wordcamp-san-francisco

[Matt] even admitted that right now, it would be better off to use another plugin rather than bbPress.

Can anyone explain to me how it was helpful of Matt to do that?

He’s not managing expectations, he’s merely degrading the work people are doing. Note, Matt’s not done this with ANY of his other projects on the go.

The bbPress community was a bit rough around the edges and the flame war that ensued forced Matt to break away for a bit.

First, I think this is quite insulting, but that aside, if Matt thought we were rough around the edges, why has there only been 1 moderator on the forums since July last year?

Anyway, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. This is total and utter bull***. Matt is an awesome bloke, great on so many levels, but have a read at the “FLAME WAR” (haha). It’s here:

https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/whats-happening-with-bbpress/page/5

Have you ever seen a nicer and more polite flame war in your life? In fact, don’t you feel (apart from 1 idiot) that this is a crazily civilised conversation??

Honestly, I think it’s a very fascinating read. Especially given that the main posters (the people who posted twice in reply to Matt’s posts) are the current Main Developer and the ONLY Moderator. And in my eyes, that’s the problem.

Matt realised that no-one agreed with him, he wasn’t weighing up arguements and helping solve a problem, he arranged weekly dev meets and IRC chats and disappeared without telling anyone for 4 weeks and came back with sweeping changes and wasn’t happy when people called him out on it.

I like to point this out every now and then:

http://ma.tt/2009/08/kill-your-community/

It’s written by some clever fellow who cares about communities on the internet and knows a thing or two about building great ones around open source software.

• Don’t Moderate.

  Make sure you only have 1 moderator on the forums. Make sure that everyone else with moderator or above status doesn’t visit the forums for a minimum of 6 months.

• Allow Spam Through.

  And make sure that a lot of legitamate posts are caught instead. Only have 1 moderator so that it can go days before real posts are displayed

• Don’t Participate in Comments.

  Less than 20 posts in 7 years? Matt.

  Less than 5 posts in the last 18 months? Trent

  Less than 5 posts in the last year? mdawaffe

  Sam. Would anyone say that Sam was a participant in these forums while he was the lead dev?

• Design Like NASCAR.

  Design’s a tricky/subjective thing. It is/was disappointing to rollout this theme with 30% of the pages not themed, and not tested on the fonts specified making the quite inreadable.

• Abandon Search Engines

  Anyone tried searching on bbPress?

• No Subscriptions

  Email subscriptions plugin was working with bbPress0.9 (and 0.8.3 as I recall, though I might be wrong). Either way, thats over 2 years folks.

• Make People Click Click Click.

  Have you ever tried to moderate your bbPress users?

  Don’t worry, Anonymous Posting is coming instead. WE’ve only had that as a plugin for 2.5 years. But you moderating your forum? Puh-lease. just you clicky click click.

• Treat Everyone the Same.

  1 moderator. Everyone else, regardless of what they do for the project is the same.

• Don’t Ask Anything of Your Audience.

  In fairness both Matt and Sam have had 1 poll each.

  They just abandoned the poll’s voting and reversed decisions at a later date – making the poll useless (actually, it’s kind of worse, it means they asked then ignored us).

I really detest forum posts that attack people personally. I often wonder/worry if my phrasing makes people feel like i’m having a go, when really I don’t mean to. This isn’t about Matt the person – he’s very cool, and I’ve alot of time and respect for him.

This is about the person at the top of the tree making decisions that someone else already pointed out to be a mistake. Those decisions/mistakes result in actions that “kill your community”. It just so happens that both of these people are Matt

[kevinjohngallagher]

When you say it does not work mate, can you tell us what it does instead?

It might be a quick fix

[kevinjohngallagher]

Rootside, this is good methodical thinking, thank you for it.

“Deep Integration” was never intended with bbPress sadly, and it’s something that the Automattic folks have shy’d away from. I’ll look for Sam’s quote on it in a bit (as he summed it up brilliantly).

I’d throw this error on the WP board and see if it gets any traction (i reported the original bug form this thread and it recieved no responses at all), but it might not given that bbPress’s integration with WordPress is not a priority for either system.

If this still exists in 3.0 when it’s released, we’ll see if we can get a sticky made to warn people.

Good work!

[kevinjohngallagher]

I was merely offering a solution. You don’t have to take it.

I actually install WordPress with almost every bbPress forum, even if it’s not needed. I don’t use Deep Integration so there is no overhead. All I do is point my bbPress forum action towards the WordPress page, and it redirects people back to bbPress, without ever seeing WordPress.

Again, it’s merely a solution. It’s not one that you have to take.

but I still need it

Then write it yourself mate

You did already get annoyed and bumped your own post when no-one had replied in under 4 hours. If you need it that desperately, then you should write it yourself

Otherwise, we’re jsut trying to help.

…think beyond

… answering your questions next time? you got it, i’ll think beyond

=====================================================================

EDIT:

Pagal didn’t we actually go over this 4 weeks ago?

Look, what we have here:

https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/wordpress-registration-and-login-via-bbpress

Started by Pagal 4 weeks ago.

Which was solved at :

https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/using-login_form-from-bbpress-on-a-wordpress-site

[kevinjohngallagher]

No CSS identifier on it.

No way, that I can see of adding a CSS identifier on it.

The issue with that function, and alot of bbP stuff, is that the output is hardcoded HTML from the core.

With this type of link it’s not really a big deal, but it’s symptomatic of asking the core for one thing (the actual URL) and getting something else in return (a HREF string with text added).

[kevinjohngallagher]

Generic plugins are actually quite good for this, at least the WordPress one is quite ideal. I generally force all my members to register and login via WordPress and that gives me way more options in terms of Plugins and Database

[kevinjohngallagher]

should I waste my time and effort in this forum software

You should never waste your time on anything.

Is it going to stay alive and healthy?

It’s open source software.

It can be anything you want it to be. If at any time it’s not what you want, you can change it

Cos, respectfully, none of us can see into the future.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Yeah, bbPress doesn’t actually have any parent child functionality, so this isn’t really possible. You could write some custom code to keep a counter somewhere, but it’s more than a pain really.

I’m workingon a plugin that deals with this, but it uses part of the bbProgress framework, and there are some issues to work around before separating it entirely.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Would love to help, but the topic and forums are private.

At least that plugin works nicely!

[kevinjohngallagher]

Yeah, just find one that parses the HTML.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Really?

From almost 30 months ago? And it isn’t still there?

Edit: At the risk of looking sarcastic, or derailling this a little: Zaerl man, i really miss my Geocities page. I kept my “SunsetStrip” page for almost 14 years. Is it wrong to miss my animated Jawa gif ?

[kevinjohngallagher]

Hi Dudd,

_ck_ has her own great forum, http://bbshowcase.com , and that would be the best place to contact her directly.

Also, to the best of my knowledge the bb-anonymous plugin doesn’t store the person’s email to be able to email them. Cos, and i may be wrong (i usually am about bbPress), but if we had their email address saved forever – that wouldn’t be anonymous

They can follow their thread via RSS though.

Kev

[kevinjohngallagher]

You would effectively be subscribing to Gautam talking to himself mate.

With the odd comment from myself/ashfame etc.

http://bbdevel.wordpress.com/

[kevinjohngallagher]

As a small aside folks, do you think there’s much of a need / desire to use our forums on mobile devices?

Been thinking about this for the last month or two since i’ve been out of the house more.

[kevinjohngallagher]

plz plz do it for me

Please please please feel free to contact me on my website for paid consultant work.

[kevinjohngallagher]

I’m sorry, you’re using BuddyPress, not bbPress.

You should head to the BuddyPress forums for help, those folks are really lovely and quick so they’ll be able to help you with a solution.

Good Luck,

Kev

[kevinjohngallagher]

[you] may want to just use an include instead, in which case you’d have to calculate the current template folder yourself, which is difficult.

Yeah, I’ve hit road blocks with both in the past, and was cheekily hoping you’d have a magic solution up your sleve. I might just load them as plugins which can call a nicely relative file. (not ideal though)

Thanks for your time, this thread is going to be helpful to alot of folks I think.

[kevinjohngallagher]

_ck_ this is excellent,

could I ask for something additional please.

For a given cusotm view, how would one load in a template file?

Is there a particular call, or do we just fire through a bog standard include?

Thank you!

[kevinjohngallagher]

Thanks Gautam,

I’m quite useless at Trac. Can you link me to the URL that shows the tickets associated with 0.9.0.7 before it’s deletion please? I can’t find them.

Also don’t you think that (again) this whole thing would be handled better if we’d been told about it either before hand or at the time?

[kevinjohngallagher]

Anonymous Posting also worked brilliantly with bbPress0.9 and the Anonymous posting plugin.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Nah, you’re way off base mate.

Your code wasn’t able to be read or validated by a parser, and had 2 Document declarations in it, so instantly it would have affected it’s SEO.

Also a container DIV called Title outside of the HTML acts against your SEO rather than for it, as it’s considered word overloading – something frowned upon by Search Engines for the last 10 years (thats if any search engine read it, given that it was outwith the HTML).

Just stick within the rules of web development and you’ll be fine

[kevinjohngallagher]

Very nice find!

[kevinjohngallagher]

<blockequote>

you are genius

Ha, thanks alot, but i can’t tell you how wrong that is

I’ve no idea about Google Ad’s i’m afraid.

Initially, I’d output a div with a border on it to make sure your code is working spot on, and then take it from there

[kevinjohngallagher]

Line 33 of topic.php has the for loop that goes through all the posts.

Insert your code there

[kevinjohngallagher]

I don’t think anyone’s against getting the next version of bbPress out the door

My concerns are:

• If bbPress0.9 support was meant to last until late 2010, why end it in May?
• Why/When was this decision taken?
• Why not inform us before the code was deleted?
• In fact, why not inform us at all?

Basically:

Sam wrote, as an employee of Automattic, that bbPress0.9 branch would be maintained until ‘late 2010’, how can this be true if we’ve had patches for 0.9 sitting since July2009 without a rollout, and are now not being released?

bbPress 1.0.2 and bbPress 0.9.0.6 legacy version released

That effectively means we’ve not been supporting 0.9 since 0.9.0.6 was released on 28thJuly 2009. Awesome, we supported it for a whole 25 days after 1.0 was released (on 3rd July 2009).

Thats a heck of a decision to go back on One’s word like that. And a considerable slap in the face to those of us who have forums still stuck on 0.9 due to 1.0’s failings.

Here’s another issue.

I don’t think we should update the 0.9 branch anymore, and probably not 1.0 either. (Same as WP.)

Matt looks at this project as if it’s working in the same way WP is. It’s not. And I think thats why he’s found the “bbPress community” so hard to get a grip on.

bbPress0.9 and bbpress1.0 are very very different. It’s not a simple upgrade in the way that many versions of WordPress have been – it’s a total and utter rewrite of the backend to use external code being run by a totally different team as an independant product.

bbPress0.9 and bbPress1.0, whichever you prefer to work with, are not incremental releases in the traditional sense – they are very close to being different products. That was reflected in the communities strong desire to have support for bbPress0.9 extended when Sam asked us. Thats right folks, we were asked and voted. Then a decision was made. And thats the crux of the problem.

Saying one thing, doing another, then not mentioning it in the hope no-one notices until weeks after – man, thats just not cool. And the kicker is, I don’t think it’s intentional at all. That’s worse though, because it means we’re a total afterthought (maybe not even an afterthought).

If the decision was made to drop 0.9 support, all someone had to do was make a blog post, or a forum sticky before hand and give folks a heads up. Why is it so hard to treat us with any respect?

Those of us who can’t write brilliant code, attempt to do our best by answering questions on the forums. My plugins will never rival some of _ck_s / Nightgunners / Zaerls. Thats a good thing. My code will never be as good for the Core as Gautam / Sam / mdwaffe. Thats even better news. But really, how can we answer questions that people ask with any certainty at all, when things like this happen (constatly)?

Help us, help you!

please.