eclipsenow (@eclipsenow)

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  • eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    Olaf, SMF 2.0 is nearly done. They’re down to RC1 or something now… many new features.

    kawauso, Well, it might complicate things for the programmers but wouldn’t it simplify things for us, the users? EG: People are starting to flock to Joomla’s “Kunena” forum because it is a plug-in that fits snugly inside the Joomla core and automatically makes use of all the Joomla user profiles etc. They’re integrating it with all the Joomla social stuff, so even though it is at a far earlier stage of development than bbpress, the end product will be the joomla equivalent of WP, Buddypress and BBpress all neatly rolled into one. I was chatting with one of the Kunena developers the other night and explained what I liked about old (dead) bbsync, and he said once J1.6 came out he’d have a look at integrating a similar function in K1.6. Sounds good.

    There are things I really love about WP! But the problems with BBpress remain:

    * too many plug-ins external to the core software just to get it to run normal forum functionality that comes ‘out of the box’ with most other forums, meaning too many 3rd party functions that might one day no longer be supported (like bbsync)

    * no bbsync

    * not an easy install plug-in to wp.


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    because every second post I read here seems to be trouble with integration not working out, and an enormous headache.

    I just want it all to be easy. I want bbsync to work again, but like so many 3rd party things, it died. That’s why I’m having trouble committing to any CMS, one does XYZ but not ABC, requiring a plug in (that could die), the other does ABC but not XYZ which is again a 3rd party plug-in, which again could die.

    I really want one software, a community portal. It has to have a nice home page, a nice blog, and a nice forum community side to it.

    I want all the features of each to be CORE (no vital 3rd party functions dying) and already installed, “out of the box”. (EG: BBpress being “fully loaded” like SMF and phpbb3. Just click boxes for the functions you want to work!)

    I want a “bbsync” styled function to be core. EG: Each blog article submitted by our expert authors would be automatically copied across to a forum and auto-linked to the forum.

    EG: At the bottom it would say “If you enjoyed this article, please click HERE to leave a comment”.

    As far as I know, the Kunena forum team for Joomla might be developing something like this for the Joomla core blog, but the core blog is VERY minimalist and doesn’t even seem to have an archive function! So my preference would be if WordPress made BBpress a “fully loaded plugin” (automatically integrated) with bbsync as a core option as well.

    But if Kunena are bringing their own version of ‘Joomlablog sync’ to life with K1.6, then maybe I’ll just have to convert CMS’s.


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    It is SO sad that bbpress isn’t a one-click install plugin for WordPress. I want a forum that clicks into my main CMS quickly, that automatically reports latest posts to the *website homepage*, that automatically integrates user permissions etc, and that works with similar User Control Panel and information for all areas of the CMS.

    I want a blog that can automatically send posts/articles to the forum (the way bbsyn USED TO before support for it was dropped) where the comments can enjoy the full power of a forum.

    And I want it all in a few clicks.

    Only Joomla seems to do that with it’s 2 highly supported “fully loaded” forums. (Forums that have all the options already in them, and that don’t need basic things like email-notification added on.)


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    This *screams out* the need for an integrated portal. Automattic could really take over the field if the new WPMU had buddypress and bbpress as one-click plugin installs that <i>just worked</i>.


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    SMF + Tinyportal just works for many, many bloggers wanting a forum and website portal all rolled into one.

    Sadly, it seems that although wordpress aims high, its forum capabilities and integration are lagging far, far behind.


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    For me, this is why I’d love to see a BBpress version that came with “Everything in it out of the box”, and another version that functioned identically, but was a PLUG IN for WPMU. Oh, I’d like to see WP have MU support in the core, so that one could just “tick a box” and it would be in.

    In other words, I’m looking for a COMPLETE social forum portal that one can just plug in and it works.

    As far as I can tell, only SMF + various Portal plug ins do that. I haven’t made a choice yet, because I love wordpress.. and the *look* here of BBpress forums is interesting. I’m just not a skilled enough hacker to get all the bits to fit together properly, and threads like this only confirm the confusion to non-hard-core developers, who have all probably gone with Expression Engine anyway.


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    Oh, and WYSIWIG and images and all that basic stuff… are there still plugins for that? I’ve got people very nervous with code…


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    The WordPress podcast themeplayground has even raised this issue, and expressed the wish to see BBpress merge into the WordPress core… or at least become a plugin.

    http://themeplayground.com/2009/podcasted/wordcamp-chicago-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-2417

    I’m so frustrated by the lack of true integration that I’m considering switching back to Joomla, and yet there’s a bunch of reasons I love wordpress so that would be a really sad day!

    Joomla is a powerful CMS, has a blog, also has many thousands of plugins, and now has a powerful forum plugin called Agora!

    As a plug-in it is truly integrated, has a growing fanbase in the Joomla world, tries to integrate all the important Joomla social plug-ins while also remaining a complete forum solution itself. AND the developer is truly MANIC in both his development AND in his support of newbies on the forum… I personally think the idea of one developer called “Hazzaa” is a myth and there must be a dozen of these guys all answering to the same name! “Hazzaa” will even log in to your site as admin and check the back-end stuff for you to see what’s gone wrong, and fix it for you! Madness, the guy is going to burn out.

    http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/communication/forum/1891


    eclipsenow
    Member

    @eclipsenow

    Some above have mentioned “less is just less”… and for a non-hacker like myself, I agree. I’d like to see bbpress come “fully loaded”, at LEAST with all the basic features one sees in SMF and phpbb3 all ready to rock and roll “out of the box”.

    FULL integration / merging with WP would be my pick. Then themers would have to work harder developing the bb into their themes for each WP “community portal” (What I’m calling the FULL WP / bbpress / buddypress / bbsync package).

    I’ve also expressed my ‘wish list’ here.

    https://wordpress.org/support/topic/299017?replies=9#post-1175959

    However, having said that I totally agree with the moderator above who said “So it’s something about the promise of bbPress that’s not yet been realized that gets people frustrated.” WordPress is way cool, and with a *truly* integrated bbpress portal system, it would rock the world and give Drupal and Joomla and SMF and phpbb3 a good run for their money! Imagine a Fantastico install of WP, and then just ticking some boxes and all the bbpress stuff was already there, “fully loaded” with all the options and ready to rock & roll?

    Ahhhh, I’m a suckie Myer’s Briggs ENJF idealist… can’t help myself….

    I don’t know php, or plan to learn it in the foreseeable future.

    I’m trying to learn XHTML, CSS, Dreamweaver, and WordPress and finally bbpress.

    Is there ANY way to make this whole thing easier? Even just an easy way to change the header image and a few colours?

    I seriously thought I could just use SMF for my forum. It has all the features already built in, it looks easy enough to manage. I’m at the end of my rope here… I just need a quick solution and to get on with using it. If I find the right “overall” theme, is it easy enough to just change the header say?

    So can I move certain “modules” or “plug-ins” around without php? EG: Can I move the log-in bar to the top or the bottom or the side of the page by a “point and click” interface a bit like Joomla, or do I have to know php to just move something around?

    Are there any “core” enhancements coming in the new bbpress that will enable easier customisation?

    Lastly, if I have a stunning new wordpress theme that I’ve styled up in Dreamweaver, how do I make bbpress “sit” inside the header-wrapper of WordPress?

    I’m almost on the brink of making a big commitment here. This could help me decide to shift not only to bbpress, but to WordPress. (I’m leaning away from Joomla and towards WordPress because of the Dreamweaver compatibility as well!) So while in some ways I’m a newbie, please understand that I’ve finally caught the “web-design” bug (although am kind of doing it part time), have upgraded to Adobe CS4, my wife and I work in a design studio, I’ve spent about 20 hours so far running through Lynda.com tutorials on XHTML and CSS and now I’m working through Dreamweaver, and I just need to make a choice about which CMS and forum to “get into” for clients.

    How do you do that survey? Downloads does not mean users of course, so I’m just curious. I’d love to hear more about Matt’s cross-promotional work.

    Anyone know if Lynda.com is about to do the latest WordPress, (let alone bbpress?) They covered using WordPress.com 2.6, but not 2.7 yet, and have about 3 courses on Joomla.

    I’m there to learn Adobe CS4, and have ambitions of learning Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Indesign, etc and delusions of grandeur that I might one day understand my mac almost as well as my wife. (Who’s a VERY professional graphic designer, but a web-illiterate like I currently am). So I paid up for a year at Lynda.com (and will claim that on tax), and sat through 10 hours of CSS training and 3 hours of XHTML and am now starting on Dreamweaver. All this slowed down by Christmas, kids home for 6 weeks in the Australian summer break, and my messing about with Joomla! (There are some things I like about Joomla, but some bad experiences with trying to modify their templates left me a bit blech…. as well! :)

    Yet I hear there is a state of the art Dreamweaver integration pack for $60 that will let me style up WordPress themes in DW! Woah! That almost won me over and gave me delusions of grandeur about one day donating a few state-of-the-art templates to the WordPress world as advertising for my own WordPress theme’s business.

    And then the kids came in demanding ice-cream, and reality slapped me across my fantasising, drooling, delusional face.

    So… in this vulnerable state of mind, I need a hug. ;-) Cult like it is, this “choosing software before you know software” business and frame of mind!

    As a bit of an activist with other causes (and having had a little exposure to marketing, not a lot but enough) can I just comment that I think it would be better “press” if bbpress had some more features turned on in this forum? I personally really rely on email notification that someone has replied to a forum, and only check my RSS about once a day. (It’s all inconvenient). Instead of just clicking “Send post” I have to then click RSS, and then click Google Reader when that comes up, and then remember to check my RSS. I think the vast majority of bulletin board users like email notification of a reply. Is there a reason bbpress decided not to showcase some of their best plug-ins on their leading forum?

    Anyway, so tired I’m nearly hallucinating. Night night, and no offence meant by any of the above.

    Thanks, that’s a really useful post.

    Almost won over. ;-)

    However, that installation + configuration video did freak me out a bit. I remember something about copying over cookies looked quite intimidating? How do I store the WP cookies the way the install video did, that didn’t seem clear?

    Also, what’s your favourite theme been? I note that this thread alternates between grey and white, and that’s nice, but what happens when people just want it to be one colour and have quotes in some other colour? (So you can automatically tell, phpbb3 style, that someone is quoting someone else and replying to them specifically.)

    [edited by moderator]

    I haven’t played with BBpress to know all its features. However, ideally, and I think I may have said this before, I think bbpress should become an extension of WordPress, or at least have that as an option. I can install Joomla in 50 seconds using Fantastico, and then install their POWERFUL little forum Agora in about 50 seconds because it is an extension right in Joomla! Too easy.

    Oh, one other thing I forgot.

    How do I back up bbpress?

    Hi all,

    thanks for your comments, some of you have had a lot of experience at this!

    My site is probably more about the forum, but with blog/website article functionality leading to discussion in the forums. It’s a political reform agenda, with Phd level people recommending that we abolish the States in Australia and have a unified National legislation parliament with far more efficiency and streamlined structures than the mess we now have, and a strong Constitutionally recognised Local government responsible for the local implementation and management of the currently state run (and failing) public services (health care, etc). Sound controversial? YOU BET, so that’s why the BLOG comments will be “off” but the forum has to be absolutely state of the art, to handle all the quite long and technical posting.

    So… while WP might have state of the art blogging, I’m really looking for forum functionality.

    Also, as this topic is on databases, has anyone used Brinkster? I suck at even normal Cpanel phpmyadmin stuff, let alone Brinkster… they seem to want people to hand code stuff in php.

    I don’t have to know php if I’m going to use bbpress do I?

    Lastly, why doesn’t this forum have email replies turned on?

    If bbpress is going to be such a big part of WP, isn’t it a good idea to have the compatible themes accessible from within both bbpress and WP? (I love the way WordPress can now browse the official themes library from within the control panel. That beats Joomla hands down in that particular department).

    Yeah, point taken. And I have to say, I’m attracted to the design of WP and BBpress. But Malice, what didn’t you like about Joomla?

    Honestly, I’m not here to troll but am keeping an eye on all developments across the Joomla / WordPress / Drupal divide. (But Drupal gives me the shudders because I don’t know php language).

    Joomla has new extensions being developed all the time, and there’s a whole new 1 click blog installation coming out to. The “Agora” module is truly revolutionary with it’s 1 click installation into Joomla with complete integration. Also, the current “ugly” Agora forum templates are getting a total work over after version 3 is introduced. Agora is a complete package that does something like 70% or 80% of everything phpbb3 does, and so I don’t need to go hunting down 20 extensions.

    So Malice, what’s not to like? ;-) I’m almost beginning to think that it’s what one encounters the best community support with first. “First impressions” matter, much like joining a new community, church, or whatever. Good experience first time and some small measure of progress made = lifetime member, and all other competing opportunities screened out as “too hard, I’ve made my choice”. It’s just the way it seems I function and many others… newbies that is. Maybe long term professional web designers and developers have made their choices on more rational grounds.

    In reply to: bbpress vs phpbb

    Hi,

    I am using phpbb3 for now, but I’m not really good at database stuff and admin stuff. I love all open source projects, especially phpbb3, bbpress, wordpress, Joomla, Drupal, etc… even though I’m not very “Geeky” yet and am only just beginning to learn the basics of CSS (let alone php etc).

    So… I am speaking from the perspective of a non-technical forum administrator frustrated by various interactions of various software. I don’t mind doing the grunt work of setting things up IN the software, but don’t know the code to work ON software. EG: Once phpbb3 is installed, I can easily set up forums, permissions, etc. It’s just easy point and click stuff. But messing around in mysql and database stuff still terrifies me, I’m afraid of breaking something. It’s all too big. I just want to install it and have it work.

    I appreciate that there are various philosophies behind each style of software, but here goes…

    MY ULTIMATE WISH LIST

    1. Nothing to do with you guys, but number 1 on my list is to have Fantastico (or something equivalent) that can make installation of WordPress / Joomla / Whatever EASY! (My client is a volunteer campaigning group that just happened to choose Brinkster which don’t use Cpanel, let alone have Fantastico).

    2. After EASY fantastico installation, I install WordPress.

    3. Then within WordPress I browse across to the various add-ons pages in the WordPress Control Panel (A VERY cool new feature of WordPress that Drupal and Joomla should add to their systems!) and then click “INSTALL FORUM?” and WordPress suddenly installs a completely compatible forum, just like that, with all the power of phpbb3 built-in.

    4. I then choose 1 of say 20 or 30 “looks” (templates, themes, whatever) that are already pre-configured to allow sign-in of users on all pages, especially the forum page. If I want to change the colour of a background element or use a new image in the header, I just point and click to template editing and do it ala Blogger. (No CSS required).

    This sort of software is on the way. Joomla now has “Agora” which is already fairly advanced. Once Joomla is installed through the 50 second Fantastico installation, Agora only takes about 50 seconds to install as well. EVEN I CAN DO IT! But the Joomla / Agora combination does not yet have Step 4, which is killing me… I have to muck around with all sorts of plug-ins and extra bits to get a horizontal log-in menu I can put up just under my header (so it’s in the same place no matter what template I’m in).

    I saw the video of how to integrate WP and BBpress, and ran a mile screaming! It just looked very intimidating.

    So anyway, the Joomla / Agora combination is hardly perfect, but as you know these things keep on developing and Hazzaa over at Agora is MANIC in the rate he’s developing his product. Version 3 is nearly out, and it’s only been 10 months.

    Just thought I should give you guys the heads up. The competition is great, because it forces us all to evolve.

    EG: I LOVE the sound of WordPress’s new one click upgrade function, and hope Joomla gets that soon! (It’s just me and database stuff again… eeerrgh!) Combine that with easy forum upgrades, backups, etc, and software that’s Mac-like in that it “just works”, and I’m a happy camper.

    PS: I forgot to check this thread in case there were replies, because I automatically get an email from every other forum I belong to. Old habits die hard. Agora has an automatic emailing function built in, it’s not a plug in. ;-)

    In reply to: bbpress vs phpbb

    Personally, I want most of the functionality of phpbb3! If bbpress only had a “phpbb3 emulator and converter pack” I’d be won over. I just can’t be bothered installing bbpress only to have to turn around and add 20 plug ins to give it the essential features I need, like email notification on reply to post, and a million other basics. Also, WYSIWYG formatting, smilies, etc… it’s all just basic configuration stuff that users expect from a forum and I don’t know why BBpress hasn’t made a core version that automatically installs all. Could have bbpress “lite” and bbpress “full”. That’s what I’d do if I ran bbpress.

    OK, I’ll let my friend who does the installs know. Cheers.

    Why on earth is there an image plug in? Why isn’t it a standard part of the main install? It seems that the BBpress logo should be…

    “BBpress, the bulletin board that looks deceptively lean because… it is! Everything you take for granted isn’t there until you add a plug in”.

    Surely email notification, email notification by forum subscribed to, images, WYSIWYG formatting, are all soooooo important and standard on other bulletin boards they should be part of the standard install?

    But, I may never know the answer because I won’t get an email if someone replies to this thread.

    In reply to: New Topic Notification

    Does this plug in work now? Can it be designed so that a user can select to “watch” one particular forum and any new post to that forum only generates one email? (But of course, not an email for ALL the following posts. It would revert back to normal REPLY notification only).

    I really don’t know why this stuff is not standard.

    Personally, what I want from an email notification service is:-

    1. To notify me of when someone replies, but not EVERYONE that replies.

    I love the fact that in phpbb.com the email notifies you, you click on the url and go to the next reply to your last post, and then you note that there are 20 other replies that you can read through neatly on the BB, but NOT 20 other emails to delete! The whole point of BB’s is that they save email stress. I’d hate to lose this function just because we decided to go with bbpress not phpbb.

    2. Being able to subscribe to not just threads, but FORUMS is also important for some users. In some large forums, some specialists need to know everything going on in that forum and might be so busy that they’d appreciate an email every time someone started a thread.

    This sort of functionality should be standard in bbpress. I’m an activist spread very thinly over the internet, and RSS just doesn’t cut it. I might see a thread, register, comment, and then forget about that whole forum until someone eventually replies. The email keeps me going back. With so many bulletin boards and forums to reply to and keep track of — that ALL pretty much notify of reply by email — why would I bother messing around with RSS as well? My email box is king, only it grabs my attention. This function should not be a plugin.

    3. There should be a function in my profile where I can just click an automatic email generator, so that ANY time I reply in ANY thread, I am automatically emailed if someone replies.

    This is standard, basic bulletin board protocol and absolutely has to be in the standard installation.

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)