- You are now logged out.
Forum Replies Created
-
I’ve been side tracked with BuddyPress bugs and paying work, so don’t expect anything official for a week or two. I have a few projects coming up fast that will need this working so while I’m missing my soft Sept 15 deadline, I don’t think it will be /too/ far off.
Sorry to disappoint, it’s no fun… and thanks for your patience with me and it.
For the record, I love bbPress. I have a few commits going into 1.1, and I have every intention of making bbPress be the best it can be as a WordPress plugin.
Regarding my motivation and priority, it’s to make great forum software that fits inside WordPress; nothing more and nothing less.
Regarding why I was able to step into this role, it’s because our peers believe I am capable, and I am willing to dedicate time and effort towards it getting it done.
Regarding any possible benefit BuddyPress might see, is a welcome bonus but not a priority. BuddyPress/bbPress processing times should decrease with BuddyPress 1.2.6, as a few tweaks have been made and a bug or two have been patched in that regard. Even still, nothing compares to the blazing fast speed of bbPress by itself, even in the slower 1.x branch.
Regarding everything else, I’m just here to write the best code I can, help make bbPress a great WordPress plugin, and have fun doing it all. So far, so good on my end.
Aw, you’re all so afflicted.
A few of the more vocal people in the BuddyPress forums raised concerns about me dual wielding projects, so it made more sense to address it there than here. Plus there’s a bigger audience over there, and since both blogs feed into the WP dashboard you’re all going to see it regardless.
It’s easy to assume that no one is thinking of you guys, I am, I was, and I did.
And yes, I’d like to have /something/ usable in a month or so, like I said in that post “give or take a missing feature or two.”
So, buck up.
johnhiler, part of us using WordPress’s built in API and architecture means we’re actually leaving turned off a lot of functionality that could easily be turned on, filtered, changed, or added to with actions.
Without it being too over the top, we’re trying to plan ahead and put actions and filters where I think I would use them myself. Since most of what we do for clients is develop custom plugins to change the way WordPress functions, we should be able to apply that experience to bbPress.
One of the things we’ve struggled on with BuddyPress, is how to make plugins, for plugins. Since plugins don’t have an internal dependency like there is on CSS or JS, we’ve had to filter and action our way into a workable solution.
So while bbPress itself is a plugin, the plan is for other plugins to be able to sneak in and change bbPress behavior before it loads, or be able to ‘plug in’ the same as always. So bbPress will be its own core, but also modular and pluggable.
All this, while striving to be as light as possible. Our work is cut out for us.
I think if there was such a thing as optimism police, they would live in these forums.
I also think, the people we will win over, are everyone that thinks this is the worst thing ever to happen since burnt bread.
I think bbPress as a plugin is going to win a lot of people once it’s ready and out in the wild.
Erlend, will try my darnedest to deliver
johnhiler, if you like plugin-centric development, you should love the bbPress plugin so far (hopefully)
Hopefully it’s able to walk the line and offer the best to both.What is a plugin and what is core is always one of those topics that tends to change and drift with the times. 6 years ago having properly formatted links to someones blogroll was considered important enough for WordPress core, but chances are people are using that functionality less and less as time goes on and people are able to connect to people more quickly and organically.
kevinjohn, we haven’t tackled it in the plugin version yet, but the difference between a ‘category’ and a ‘forum’ will be fairly distinct once we get it going. My experience working with the Categories Hierarchy project back in my phpBB days taught me the importance of handling the way those types of data behave.
Thinking part of the JS minify issue may have been not emptying the cache after changing the settings. Before I wasn’t automatically uploading the changes to the CDN.
Seems to be fine now, and can’t duplicate it when I want to see it.
If you really want it minified, I’m happy to get the plugin author involved in testing, to see if it’s a w3tc or bbPress issue.
Always loved this idea personally. As a 2004 phpBB2.x graduate, I was constantly trying to make my forum software do stuff it wasn’t intended to do. This brings me back to those days.
@gswaim If it comes down to name calling or aggression, that’s always an option, but usually the last one if we can all help it. Fortunately the moderation team over here is fantastic, so no worries there.
The decision to allow Pete and myself the opportunity to do the bbPress plugin conversion wasn’t only Matt’s to make, and was agreed on by a committee of all of our peers running the 3.org initiatives, in #wordpress-dev on freenode, and on the WordPress development blog.
The reason it’s bbPress 1.2 rather than bbPress 2.0 (at least as it stands today) is because part of the coding standards we adhere to is not inflating version numbers. Could always see if everyone agrees to inflate based on the amount of new code going in, but I don’t think that’s my decision to make, and I would wager that it’s unlikely to happen? Been wrong before though.
Again, just too many of the same points to repeat myself, but bbPress standalone isn’t going to be “unsupported”, it just isn’t going to see any additional features, which is exactly what I think most of you want. Correct me if I’m wrong here?
If I wasn’t on my iPad I’d quote myself volunteering personally to commit any bug fixes to the 1.1x branch of code if anything comes up, but again, that went totally unresponded to.
All of the things I’ve offered to do, to help continue the 1.1x branch of standalone code in addition to creating the 1.2 plugin, have gone totally unacknowledged. If you want to be able to do it yourself, you’ll need to have the experience to understand that the code you write is responsible for powering millions of sites around the world, and that you can easily create global chaos with one click of a button. Call me melodramatic, but in environments like WordPress.com, it’s very true. My experience over the past year has had me much more close to that kind of environment, particulalrly with BuddyPress.
A year ago I felt keeping bbPress as a standalone made sense because a year ago I didn’t comprehend what was coming in WordPress, particularly 3.0 where custom post types have made much more possible. I also had less experience with BackPress, and don’t get me wrong; BackPress is awesome, but bbPress won’t reach its full potential until it’s a plugin for 25 million other websites.
Kevinjohn, I’m sorry but you’ve got a knack for twisting words around and quoting things totally out of context. That’s not really fair, and I wouldn’t do it to you or anyone else so I’d appreciate the same.
I don’t get what you all want bbPress to do differently that would even require a new standalone version. I’ve asked that before, and there’s no answer; just frustration.
bbPress has always been an Automattic endorsed project, and considering without Matt it wouldn’t exist, or have a trac, an svn, or core developers thus far, it seems like he’s the one who’s earned the ability to make decisions on the future of the project. If you call me believing that to be true drinking that Kool Aid, I’m happy to do it because I believe Matt and Automattic and bbPress has earned that from me. If Matt wanted to abandon bbPress completely and close up shop, he could, and someone could graciously keep it alive by forking it. None of that stuff, should make anyone this upset.
My employment status or relationship with Automattic aside, I’m happy, blessed, and consider it a great privilege to have the trust of Automattic and the surrounding community to take this on, even if some of you don’t understand why it’s me, or why now, or why a plugin.
Regarding TalkPress, the main reason it’s named differently is to avoid the confusion people have with WordPress.org and WordPress.com. bbPress is the opensource forum software of choice for WordPress users. If any of you want to help the plugin work on top of backpress, patches welcome and I’m open to the idea. Otherwise, I’d wager 60% or more of the support questions regarding bbPress are incorporating it with WordPress. It’s been said in this topic already, but making it a plugin alleviates those issues, and still allows everyone to keep loving bbPress.
In all honesty, all this back and forth is tiring, and all it’s doing is taking the team of people that are here to help keep bbPress alive, and make us the enemy to the people that are just happy to see life again. That, and it’s taken our ability to communicate news to the bbPress community away from us, and instead forced us to try and put out this fire for the past 4 days.
Quite frankly, it all kinda sucks.
I get that the reality (for some of you) of switching bbPress to rely on WordPress instead of BackPress doesn’t sit well or even make sense, but I promise you it does. I might even have a trick that will help make the admin area a little more familiar. But 1.2 isn’t going to use BackPress anymore. Instead it’s going to use WordPress. bbPress itself is getting lighter, and we inherit all the eyes and updates that WordPress has had that BackPress hasn’t. That alone, if you ask me, is more than enough reason to be thankful for this move. If you need it super optimized, we’ll inherit all the caching plugins for WordPress. If you need bells and whistles, we get WP plugins. There is too much to gain, to not have bbPress be a WP plugin.
The existing standalone committers, are doing a great job already. There are very few trac tickets to work through in terms of bug fixes, and most of the enhancements would naturally get fixed by making it a plugin.
So… I want to say again, your passion and enthusiasm is something I want, and appreciate. If any of you are going to WordCamp Savannah, I’ll gladly discuss this over drinks and dinner. Whatever you need, I want to make it happen for you, but the name isn’t changing, Myself and the team are going to support the standalone with security updates as needed. Since I have commit access, I’m happy to commit fixes as needed because I’ve been trusted with that ability and I want everyone happy with a safe and functional piece of software, plugin or standalone.
I also, typed this out entirely on my iPad over the course of an hours worth of “leisure time.” if that doesn’t say you have my attention and commitment, I dunno what does.
Too much to address, but I’ll pick some points.
WordPress + BuddyPress + W3 Total Cache = less than 10 queries on a complete social network. If optimization is your cup of tea, there’s lots of ways you can achieve that. Core issues with WP should be directed over to those folks.
If you have a method to make it better, submit a patch. Then you can work your way up to being one of ‘those people’ that are making the decisions that you don’t agree with.
Pete’s status, isn’t any different than the way you all feel about things. If you can vent your frustrations, so can he.
Help me understand why we’re upset again.
1. bbPress 1.1 (standalone) – Still in active development
2. bbPress 1.2 (plugin) – Months before anyone should consider it stable, but you’re welcome to jump on the bandwagon early and help make it exactly the way you want it, side by side with Pete and myself, and anyone else that’s along for the ride.
Regarding # 1, what MORE do you want your lightweight standalone software to do? If you want it to be more efficient, spend some time walking through queries and making it that way. If you want something in the UI changed, do it; patch it; make it go, and I will review it, and commit it.
Regarding # 2, our goal is to have this usable ASAP as part of the 3.org initiatives, but I wouldn’t want anyone outside of that initiative using it for production until it’s released. I know we all like to live on the bleeding edge (I’ve always been that guy too) so now’s your time to start helping us weld things in from the very get-go. If you think the way we’ve doing it now is completely wrong, let us know and provide us a better way; I am happy to listen and make it right, because I want what you want; the best bbPress possible.
I think all this talk about Matt, and Automattic, should be redirected back towards Automattic the company, and not bbPress the open source software. I understand the two are perceived to be tightly integrated because mixing money and open source is mixing business with pleasure, and it’s always hard to explain or understand the difference.
I think the general negativism has taken its toll already, and it’s time to try to look at this glass as half full going forward. Please? Kindly?
Not trying to be a jerk here, but man… there is no end in sight here, and it just isn’t productive or helpful anymore. We need to tighten this ship up before it sinks itself. I say this, not from a “looking down” perspective, but from a “‘we’re in this together so let’s make the best of it” perspective.
