[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 4 months ago]

Hilarious.

I want it fixed, but i’m not going to follow the instructions you tell me.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 5 months ago]

I think 0.9 should have security releases until the end of next year.

Its a long time, and i can see why it would be a pain and an overhead when people are working so hard on 1.0, the realism is that 0.9 is a proven entity and alot of people will not be convinced to move a forum that’s already working well to something new, at least not in the short term.

Yes December 2010 is 18 months away, and that’s at Sam’s upper limit, but its not that long in development time; and given there is no new features going to be implemented for 0.9 only security fixes (and most of the probable new security holes in 1.0 wont be in 0.9).

@ryanhellyer

If you’re suggesting that Sam base the date of not supporting 0.9 on the proposed date that _ck_ might update all her plugins to 1.0 on, then you’re nuts. In a nice way ofc, but totally mental.

What if _ck_ doesn’t update for addons in december? There’s a plethora of reasons why that wouldn’t happen, and to base the proposed date of closure of 0.9 on a commented that _ck_ made on one forum post once seems… daft.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 5 months ago]

http://www.kevinjohngallagher.com/___alpha/bbpress_as_phpbb/

Released last October/November time mate

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 7 months ago]

Ok, let me phrase it another way.

Given BBpress’s track record (alpha’s that fail, lack of communication, wrong communication, skipping of beta’s 2 weeks after telling everyone that you’re skipping alpha7 for beta1, lack of integration, lack of coherance with wordpress, prettey dubious documentation etc); what possible good can come out of having a wikipedia page before the RTM1.0 ?

Also, with RTM1.0, won’t that in itself generate alot of blog/article posts once the automattic “it’s all fine here, these aren’t the droids you’re looking for” marketing; why have ‘bad/negative’ facts written on teh wikipedia page?

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 7 months ago]

One of the things BBpress does really well is putting the horse before the cart.

Given that we skipped the last alpha, wrote off all the grand plans that had been coded to for 1.0a7, entirely skipped the beta stages, and released an RC thats not exactly been put through its paces yet… maybe just maybe we should hold off on getting on Wikipedia until, i dunno, the software is ready?

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 7 months ago]

ooops, it might be this link:

https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/bbpress-mindset-features-and-where-now-discuss

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 7 months ago]

I raised the issue last October/November:

https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/parent-childrelationship-in-forum-loop

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 8 months ago]

Nice one!

I missed that plugin, and ofc “tip o’ the hat” to _ck_ again.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 8 months ago]

Looking good Nightgunner5, and great to see you back.

While possibly a little self serving, i’d strongly suggest doing our upmost to make this plugin work for 0.9 for a number of reasons:

1) 0.9 is officially the stable branch and has been for over 9 months now.

2) 1.0.6alpha is nowhere near being the beta.

3) The next alpha is going to break alot of functions and plugins, to the point that _ck_ has already stated she’s not going to fix her plugins from 1.0.7a -> 1RC1 at the earliest. Aiming this code for 1.0.6a, is probably going to give you more work in the long run.

4) I know that Sam has posted on the blog that the proposed function changes might not happen now, but there’s still alot of open tickets out there; and alot of works been done on BBpress since 1.0.6a alpha in January. Add in to that all the work done for “talkpress”, and there’s no way the next version is goin to be near RC1 level.

5) WordPress 2.8 is coming with a new authentication system (yes new to 2.5 and 2.6/2.7’s authentication system), so even if we do get a new release of BBpress at the same time, there’s a whole bunch of coding to be done and tested as an alpha – let alone having the 1.0.beta released at the same time.

Either way, and with the best will in the world, 0.9 is going to be the “stable” release of BBpress for at least the summer. Today’s the 2nd of May, and we’ve not seen an update to 1.0.6a. If 1.0.7 is released on Monday, we’ll have at least 4 weeks of user reports and bug fixes before the next release. If that’s the beta and not not another alpha release, then we’ll have a few weeks of testing/fixing before an RC, and then at least a week before the final release.

Obviously it’s GREAT that you’re building this plugin, and from what i’ve read – it looks ace ( I’m about to install at home in a few minutes), but given the very changeable nature of alpha’s, it’s probably wise to focus more on 0.9 computability; and then making a version1 port when it’s in beta or release candidate. Just my two cents mate.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 8 months ago]

This was one of the things i had to get used to with BBpress that i think is very weird.

Why are moderator functions on the front end, but not in the admin section?

On one of my forums, i try and keep a very tight ship, making sure things are in the right section, and having the ability to click a check box and selecting “move to—>” would speed up moderation by a considerable factor.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 8 months ago]

I’m currently using a modified version of Brandon Aaron’s spell checker on the client side, and have all but disabled it on all of my sites.

1) Some browsers do spell checking as standard, so it was overkill.

2) All browsers which do it as standard do so through an addon (yes, even the Mozilla suite).

3) Different people want the spell checker to work different ways – and it was a nuisance for some, and just plain old slow for others.

4) For subject specific forums, words not in the dictionary started to become a pain. I run my little brothers WoW guild’s website for example, and it annoyed some of them senseless.

5) The client side version isn’t the fastest

6) The server side implementation just adds another step to the posting process.

7) You complicate issues with having an “add to dictionary” or “ignore this word” feature, both of which are kind of standard in spell checkers.

It’s a nice idea, and i liked it once i wrote the plugin… but it just became too much hassle very quickly.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

With respect Swaymedia mate, if you don’t read what people reply to you, you’ll never get the answer to the questions you’ve asked.

===============================================================

_ck_: “If you don’t know what I know about bbPress it just means you are lazier than me”

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

Swaymedia,

Ipstenu made some great points, to show you the thoughts of someone with a different perspective. While you might not see his point of view, he was kind enough to lay out his view point for you.

As much as Ipstenu and _ck_ are making generalisations, so are you. You have no proof that “the majority” want what you want. You keep using the phrase “the majority” to back up your points, and while i mostly agree with your premise, i’m not overly confident that randomly adding in your guess on how many people might possibly maybe agree with you is helpful.

“the majority” is the same as “deep integration will crush a shared server if you get a surge in visitors”, there’s not facts or figures, just someone’s massive assumption, laid out to attempt to prove a point.

Ipstenu is wrong about integration not being mentioned on this site, it’s on the homepage (https://bbpress.org/), the about page (https://bbpress.org/about/features/) and on the documentation page (https://bbpress.org/documentation/integration-with-wordpress/) and this is what confuses people who are new to BBpress. But, every time someone mentions it, it’s shot down.

And yes, while using an iFrame is a hack, hacks are far from uncommon in the web industry, let alone wordpress or BBpress. Making things work has always been the way websites have been built, and while i understand and support your desire for a different method, there’s very little need for the ‘OMG’ simply because you dont like the solution presented (not to mention, i think very few 13 year old girls read this website so wont be too impressed ;-] ).

There’s loads of things wrong with BBpress, and many are trying to work to make it better. Getting up tight becuase you dont like a solution or because you want others to code a better one for you isn’t going to make BBpress a better fit for you. Take a deep breath my friend.

Kevinjohn

p.s. And if you were using an iFrame back in 1995 then my hats off to you, as Microsoft didn’t invent them until 2 years in later, so kudos for driving that delorian up to 88 miles an hour and going back in time to work as a microsoft dev in building IE 4.

===============================================================

_ck_: “If you don’t know what I know about bbPress it just means you are lazier than me”

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

Wow _ck_,

If you don’t know what I know about bbPress it just means you are lazier than me

In honesty _ck_, do you believe that to be true?

Thats a very very sweeping statement and a massive generalisation. You’ve been involved with BBpress longer than alot of people here, You’re also a plugin developer and a moderator, and the belief is that if they don’t have your years of knowledge and experience then they are lazy?

If you are using bbPress now you are an early-adopter. Early adopters have to be do-it-yourself-ers who figure things out for themselves and/or don’t have timetables.

Agreed. Infact, no-one is arguing that point.

All the original poster suggested was that a “two minute update” once a month would greatly help him and others in the community to know where BBpress is going. Truly, i don’t think that should warrant another _ck_ “leave BBpress now” rant, especially as he has posted it in the “Requests and Feedback” section.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

Hi _ck_,

I’m going to disagree with you a little here and suggest that there’s a happy medium between giving us some information and “having to do public relations”.

You give BBpress so much, and obviously have some direct communication with the development team, that maybe you cant see what it’s like for the rest of us. Sam pops up here once every 3 weeks and does one of 5 things:

1) Comments on your posts

2) Agrees with something you’ve posted

3) Tells us he’s been pulled from BBpress to work on something else and he’ll be back in a bit

Even knowing PHP and CSS, having nothing filter down from the BBpress team makes it very difficult. We only hear about things when YOU tell them to us, which is why people think you’re a BBpress developer. As i have said here before, when i came back to BBpress in October i did not know about Sam until Christmas time’s Facebook page creation debacle. Heck, i didn’t even know about Michael until i read your post 3 minutes ago (welcome to the team Michael).

A blog isn’t going to stop questions,

But _ck_, there is a blog already! It’s only had 6 posts in 8 months though, which is what leads to alot of questions. Trac is so hideously out of date that it leads to release date questions (which you then get annoyed about having to answer all the time) . The information on About, Documentation and Blog are either hideously out of date or flat out wrong.

We’re not asking Sam (and Michael) to stop working on BBpress, or to use their own free time to do “public relations” with us. But thats not to say that having no communication is a good thing either; especially as there is alot of mis-information floatng around the BBpress website.

As the original poster said: “a quick two-minute update each month to the blog about progress that’s being made and what still remains to do”.

In my opinion, a “two minute update” once a month, is not someone asking for the BBpress team to be “distracted with having to do public relations”. Maybe a happy medium can be reached?

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

You know, there’s no good way to say this…

But wouldn’t that sort of table (and i think it’s a great idea) be classed as documentation?

And if so, does anyone expect to see it on the BBpress website? Heck the BBpulp.org wiki that Sam set up a year ago so that we’d have documentation hasn’t been updated for the last 8 releases…

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

At the risk or hijacking this thread, given how quickly topics get pushed down the front page, i really wanted to post this link:

Overwriting Template functions

And Bruinfelix, i’d like to urge you to release the language pack to the community even if you are leaving BBpress. Many Thanks. Kev

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

HI sway,

I dont think it does work like that. It’s a confusing name choice as a Category means something different in wordpress. Category in this instance means and equivalent of “section” or a parent group of forums so…

Category

– – Forum

– – – – Topic

– – Forum

– – – – Topic

– – – – Topic

– – Forum

– – – – Topic

If i can link to an old example i made (from September last year) , you can see that the different categories have forums as ‘children’: http://kevinjohngallagher.com/___alpha/bbpress_as_phpbb/

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

Thanks for the input _ck_, as always

I’m not often trying to replace an entire function from template-functions.php, i just want to overwrite one function once. But i get now that it has to be in pluggable.php, which is cool.

I suppose my issue here is this: why are many functions that output hardcoded HTML hardcoded into templates-functions.php in the core and not in pluggable.php so that theme / plugin developers can’t overwrite them?

In my opinion (and it’s just my opinion) there are far too few hooks in BBpress and some of them are in the ‘wrong’ or difficult place for theme development or front-end plugin development. This may seem daft to alot of people and long time BBpress contributors, but with the likes of _ck_ writing so many great back end plugins, most of mine focus on making BBpress work in a slightly more modern way (ajax, nestings, wysiwyg, etc); and i keep hitting these ‘walls’ of where BBpress has hardcoded something.

Basically I struggle to see why BBpress doesn’t have a functions.php file in the theme directory. As it stands we’ve got to create a theme the way we want it, then integrate it into the WordPress theme, then remove the conflicts for the WP and BBpress theme as the standard BBpress theme came with a different div structure to the standard WP one (madness), then add the hooks for all the stuff thats not got a hook, then move hooks for the one in a ridiculous place, then write a plugin to load up all the functions that your theme will use as standard (cos god forbid we’d have a functions.php like wordpress).

It makes developing a theme that does anything more than background colour of posts and what happens around/outside the forum a real nightmare. And what’s worse, it means that any theme to stray away from the ‘default’ kakumei theme, needs to have a plugin installed as well.

While this may seem like no big deal to people (and it’s not a huge deal), given that we use a different structure for our folders to WP (again – crazily stoopid given the market BBpress’s aimed at even at this stage), we’re reliant on the user to install and activate everything properly.

example:

Instructions with a theme if we had a functions.php and WP structure:

• Copy theme folder to your theme directory.
• Load up admin section, and select the new theme.

Instructions with a theme as is:

• Create a my-themes folder in your BBpress directory
• Copy the theme folder into that directory
• Create a my-plugins folder in the your BBpress directory
• Copy the plugin folder into that directory
• load up admin section, and select new theme
• activate new plugin to make theme reliant functions work

Now, obviously there is nothing too taxing on the second version, but it’s long been my experience that the less steps users have to undertake the less errors are made. Especially, and this is the bit I don’t get, when WordPress does things in a really simple manner (and has done so for ages).

I appreciate that forums of the nature we create are never going to be the most exciting or ground breaking in the world, but for those who think i’m wrong about more modern / different theme’s being available for bbpress let me ask this:

1. If you look at the Top 20 forums in _ck_’s list (http://bbshowcase.org/forums/view/top100), can you tell it’s a BBpress forum before seeing the “powered by BBpress” at the bottom? If you’re bored do the same for the rest of the top100 and see how many you need to check are running BBpress.
2. By comparison, when you go to a non-BBpress forum on the internet, can you automatically tell what forum software it is every time?
3. But i bet you can tell it’s NOT BBpress straight away. Why do you think that is?

(infact the first one i’d to scroll to the bottom to check it was made my bbpress and it was – a number have switched away form bbpress – was http://soccerlens.com/forum/ which is using one of my template hacks from last year. the other worth mentioning is http://www.dragonballalcine.com/foro/ which is lovely and innovative – so that’s 2 out of the top100)

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

THANK YOU detective!

(also thanks to _ck_ and Ipstenu – i’m sure we would not have gotten there without you).

So in idiots terms (so i can understand ;-] )…

All functions hardcoded into BBpress’s template-functions can be overwritten, but only if they are on a hardcoded list within the core?

And if you want to write a plugin to overwrite one of these template functions that’s hard coded into the core, and not on another the hardcoded list in the core, we have to include a file in the theme directory and not the plugin directory?

Am i the only one that thinks that this hampers theme development with all this hardcoded stuff? Anyway, as long as this works it’s cool with me – thank you all for your help!

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

HI _ck_,

Yeah it was a typo.

I know that functions can have things added to them and overwitten as your plugins prove, i’m not doubting that for a second, and i’m sorry if it came across that way. What i’m saying is that while i’m able to either overwrite or add to some functions, some i’m only able to add to, and some i’m not able to either add to nor overwrite.

Now if that’s not a bug, then cool. Really cool! But i can’t see why that would be, and i’m hoping you can point me in the right direction. You’ve said countless times it works in the same way as wordpress plugins, but a google search of how to overwrite wordpress functions leads me to (see pages below). And the code supplied here works on every function i’ve tried (so far – 9 plugins in) except BB_GET_HEADER, BB_GET_FOOTER and POST_FORM. and i’m wondering why that is.

I’m absolutely 100% cool with the fault being at my end, it would be a relief tbh, but with no documentation and no examples or other plugins that overwrite these functions i’m totally lost.

Basically, typos and what pepole think i’m wanting do to aside, what i really want to know is this:

What code do i have to write so that my function is called instead of the one hard coded into template-functions.php?

Thank you so much.

Edit: Websites i use as a plugin resource:

http://www.catswhocode.com/blog/how-to-overwrite-wordpress-core-functions

https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API

http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-hackers/2008-February/018013.html

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

HI _ck_,

thanks for this. I’m not trying to stop something being called with an add_action, but i’m sorry if i didn’t phrase it well enough. What I have found is that i cannot either get an added filter nor an action to add to certain functions in BBpress. Thats the issue i’ve hit.

Nor am i wanting dynamic theme’s, as your wonderful plugin covers that.

My plugin does this:

ON activation checks for wordpress integration.

If wordpress integrated copies the header file form the wordpress template to a directory.

Inserts BBcode Hooks into the new file.

Now that bit works well and dandy; but what i want in this instance is to overwrite the function BB_GET_HEADER as it’s hardcoded in the template_functions.php file.

So here is my question, how can i/we overwrite the BB_GET_HEADER function ?

1) can we overwrite functions in the template-functions.php file?

2) how?

3) is there an example of this anywhere?

I ask not to be pedantic, but because i think you answered my post based on what you think i’m trying to do with my plugin rather than the issue at hand – namely that i can over write some functions and not others.

You are pretty much the authority on this, so i really appreciate any help insight you might have on how to overwrite the BB_GET_HEADER function. thank you!

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

I hardly think that it is fair to imply that I don’t ‘care for BBpress (sic) development’

I didn’t say that nor suggest it, i said that “Name calling, on an anonymous internet forum, is hardly the way to get help, and i think that’s a true statement. If you call people “dick” and “bitch”; you are less likely to get help. I don’t think that is a false statement, and if you’re taking more from it than i had intended then i think you’re just trying to look for a fight rather than apologising for calling me a “dick” for trying to help you.

After all, i did try and help.

English is not my first language (nor my second – so my tone may be very off), but i wasn’t being intentionally rude or argumentative. I think it’s fair to say that people who have English as a non-primary language sometimes write sentences in a way that people some people find harsh or blunt – especially on internet forums where tone and intination do not come across. If that’s not something that you or anyone else who reads this agrees with then i’m sorry, it’s my experience that some cultures say things in a different way to others.

As for the unasked for advice, it was asked for. You asked what your next step should be, and in my honest opinion it should be to test everything on a development enviroment. You may think it “self righteous” of me to say so, but there have been many examples of people on these forums who upload and install on a live environment first (there are 3 on the first page of this forum btw), so i was being honest and offering you and answer to the question YOU ASKED. I didn’t get bored and decide to write you an email, you asked for help and i took time to answer. If you think that was unasked for, then i apologise.

You know man it’s like this, folks like me try our best. We try and asnwer in the best way possible in a language thats not our own, and if you go around picking out phrases out of context and saying things like we “tried to imply” – you’re reading way too much into simple sentances. If i wnted to say something i would, i wouldn’t hide behind an implication or worse, hide behind an attempted implication of something i really wanted to say. It’s hard to post here in English and we do our best. We dont expect to be called a “dick” or suggesting that we’re a “bitch” for doing so. And if you think that’s acceptable behavior to someone who was trying to help, then thats your own thing man, frankly i think it’s a little uncool – but if you think swearing at someone who is trying his best to help you is cool then there’s nothing i can add to that. Namecalling never got anyone anywhere, and i’d be surprised it if got you help on this forum either.

Good luck in your endeavours.

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

It’s not stupid mate, it might be the answer. At this stage i’m up for trying anything.

I don’t have it and will go test it now.

Thank you!

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 15 years, 9 months ago]

Wow,

PierrottorreiP, i was only trying to help, i think you could drop the attitude man. Rest assured, i’ll not try to help again.

My first point, about using a development environment, is a sound technical point. The point of doing things locally is to plan/develop/test until it’s right then push live. If as you said you “I did put the site together locally and realized that I wanted them to talk to each other after I made it live.” that just shows poor planning, and it’s not my fault for not realising that you had decided to make things on your live server different from your testing environment.

That said, your site currently has 1 user, you, so taking down the forums until you fix it locally isn’t going to be a disaster.

As for my suggesting you only include a link when needed, again, it wasn’t to persecute or “bitch”, but was honest advice. If you have something you want us to look at please include a link by all means, but make it a link to your forums and or the page you’re having an issue with. ‘bumping’ your website via views from a BBpress support forum aren’t going to help (of the top 10 google links form your website name are from this website – and many people have tried to bump their site this way before which is why i mentioned it).

You also have to accept that English isn’t everyone’s first language, and while not bad at it myself, taking offence because of the way something is worded – especially in a post that gave you step by step instructions on how to fix your issue – is frankly very bad form.

Name calling, on an anonymous internet forum, is hardly the way to get help from those of us who care for BBpress’ development.