[PureRover]

I have tested several forums with WordPress. Both as separate program and as integrated program/plugin. Every forum we tested had major issues that would prevent being used on our site.

We have installed bbpress plugin and found it very flexible with the exception of being able to hide the sidebars.

Why can’t the whole forum be put into a short-code so it can be applied inside a full-width page?

This forum is full of questions and requests for ppPress to be imbedded via short-code right into a full-width page. Why is it so hard to accomplish this. Afterall, ppPress is written by the same people that created wordpress.

This is very frustrating.

-Mark

[travis.hill]

Your request can be accomplished with a little grunt work. Are you asking for an “all-in-one” shortcode?

…with the exception of being able to hide the sidebars.

Content areas and sidebars are independent areas within a WordPress installation. Hiding the sidebar can be accomplished a few different ways: Within Appearance > Widgets, or you could comment out the code in the template files. But sidebars/widgets are always independent of content areas.

Why can’t the whole forum be put into a short-code so it can be applied inside a full-width page?

Why can’t a full width page be created and the shortcode placed inside? That is more in tune with what WordPress is built to do. Create a page. Give it a full width template (if your theme provides it), and place the shortcode within that page. Anything after that is accomplished is a style issue. I just wrote a post about full-width forums in your other topic:

Full-Width Forum

You can also read up on shortcodes here:

bbPress 2.0 – Shortcodes

bbPress does a good job of being a forum out of the box. Sure, there are issues, but the code is still in its infancy. Any cosmetic customization is up to the user, however.

[thetbasket]

Thank you for the information.

I just tried the solution you had posted for a Full-width forum, but the sidebars still remained. It seemed to work for the other user, but was a no-go for me.

I removed the div.bbp-breadcrumb in bbpress.css as suggested and replaced it with:

.bbp-forums {

width: 100%;

}

But there was no change.

Any tips would be great. I can understand what you’re saying about how wordpress is built for a certain function, but at the same time the function of a forum does not necessarily adhere to that format or fit appropriately within it.

For me, the benefit of having such a plugin is to have a forum that operates well and lightly as a forum on a wordpress site, not necessarily a forum that works within the confines of a wordpress post or page, which is not how forums have functioned nor probably how they best function – considering the horizontal space they typically need for the post title, user that posted, number of replies, and so on, which take up quite a bit of horizontal real-estate.

And since the typical widget that would be placed on the sidebar of a blog would be unlikely to directly apply to the forum, what you have in the end is an unnecessary utilization of space that would – for the end user – probably be better used to create a forum which is less cramped, more spacious, etc. – especially when they have the option to access the widgets and sidebars by going back to the blog – that which those widgets and sidebars were likely created for in the first place.

[travis.hill]

@thetbasket, could you provide a URL, please?

…but was a no-go for me.

Your problem still exists because you probably have a completely different theme than that user did.

…but the sidebars still remained.

Are you using a Full Width Page Template? These templates do not have a sidebar. They are included with your theme. You select a template when you create a page.

I removed the div.bbp-breadcrumb in bbpress.css as suggested…

I didn’t suggest removing div.bbp-breadcrumb, I suggested removing the float:left from div.bbp-breadcrumb. You’ll probably want to style the breadcrumb.

But there was no change.

Again, this is probably because your not using a full width page template.

…but at the same time the function of a forum does not necessarily adhere to that format or fit appropriately within it.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have said “what WordPress is built to do”, because WordPress is nearly limitless. It’s only restriction is the ability of it’s builder. There is a solution to almost any problem within WordPress. Sure, a vanilla installation of WordPress is pretty limited, but alas, it can be extended to do very powerful things.

A forum software is exactly what WordPress is. A Content Management System.

A blog is a forum. A person creates a post (topic) and people comment (reply) on it.

A forum is a blog. A person creates a topic (post) and people reply (comment) to it.

A blog and forum are one in the same. How can it not fit appropriately?

For me, the benefit of having such a plugin is to have a forum that operates well and lightly as a forum on a wordpress site, not necessarily a forum that works within the confines of a wordpress post or page, which is not how forums have functioned nor probably how they best function – considering the horizontal space they typically need for the post title, user that posted, number of replies, and so on, which take up quite a bit of horizontal real-estate.

Again, I think your missing the full width page template.

And since the typical widget that would be placed on the sidebar of a blog would be unlikely to directly apply to the forum, what you have in the end is an unnecessary utilization of space that would – for the end user – probably be better used to create a forum which is less cramped, more spacious, etc. – especially when they have the option to access the widgets and sidebars by going back to the blog – that which those widgets and sidebars were likely created for in the first place.

The bulk of your post deals with your forum not “fitting” within a page, because of the sidebar. I understand where your coming from, so please verify that you are using a full width page template, as these typically don’t have sidebars. This should solve your sidebar issue. If you don’t have a full width page template, create one.

WordPress Codex: Creating Your Own Page Templates

The last resort, and not a good one, is to comment out the get_sidebar() code in your template files.

[PureRover]

Travis,

Thank you for responding to my earlier question eventhough it’s a mute point now since I am beta testing another forum plugin.

Our team needs a simple forum that can be plugged right into a full-width page. The template we are using was built with that in mind.

The only problem we found with BBPress was it’s lack of one shortcode for the entire plugin. Why implement short-codes for bits and pieces of a software package and not the whole?

We implemented BBPress into a full-width page. Looked good until we clicked on any link inside the forum. When it was redrawn, it would leave the full-width page and revert back to a normal width page with sidebar widgets being displayed.

Modifying our template to fit a plugin is out of the question. Our template works with every other plugin we have installed and should not have to be modified to make a plug-in work. The plugin should work, regardless. If we start modifying a template everytime we load a plugin, we would be in trouble.

In other words, you need a short-code for the entire forum, not section.

We are currently beta-testing simplepress which uses one shortcode for the entire plugin.

BBPress has a lot of potential but doesn’t quite meet the requirements for a seamless forum plugin.

-Mark

[thetbasket]

Hi Travis,

Thanks for the response. My theme was different, as you had suggested, and I am working on it. Although I’m now in a little bit more of a complicated predicament because I am trying to use bbpress through buddypress, and on the buddypress install the forums options is not pointing the indicated page to the bbpress forums.

Anyway, I did misread or misunderstand your first suggestion – sorry about that. As far as creating a full-width template, I am nearly positive I did so (I created a template specifically for that page to be full width), but nevertheless I will double check next time.

I don’t want to get too deeply into this, but the fact that we use the word “blog” and “forum” already indicates that they are different even though they are both CMS’s. The issue is not that one is a CMS and the other is not, it is a matter of how the content is managed and it’s purpose.

A blog is a blog because, generally, one user is contributing the content that a multiplicity of users is commenting on. So a standard blog Write-and-Respond system works nicely, and works nicely even in a narrow space because it usually contains one article with comments on the article.

A forum, on the other hand, is a multiplicity of users creating multiple threads all scaffolded by an overarching structure of the forum and subforums. The way forums have been built thus far has been usually in a wide content format so users can see 1) The Thread title 2) The amount of replies 3) The last user that replied etc. etc. In other words, it is build upon a more horizontal management format, whereas the blog can get away with a more vertical format.

Of course now and into the future there will be all sorts of variations on this. But for the end user, I want a forum that is a forum, not a forum that is a blog. In other words, wide-formatted with the expected information that forums have traditionally contained up to this point.

The strong point of bbpress is its integration and especially it’s style integration. Anyone who has attempted to create themes for phpBB knows what a nightmare it can be. However, if you try to smush a phpBB forum in-between two or even besides one sidebar, see what happens. Not only that, but those sidebars from the blog are almost inherently irrelevant to the function of the forum. In other words — useless screen real estate being taken from what otherwise would be a smoothly functioning, articulated forum.

And I can understand that WordPress vanilla functions fine, and being opensource one could reprogram it into Duke-Nukem 3D, almost. As a user of wordpress, the most frustrating thing consistently is that I feel like I am hacking CSS and PHP files more than I am creating content, and perhaps this is because I am a bit persnickety and want a particular look, but a full width forum from a forum plugin? To me things like this (and there are enough) are just plain flaws in development. I shouldn’t need to hack anything to get a forum to operate in full width because that is how forums best operate according to contemporary standards. Perhaps you should need to hack to get something to operate somehow unique and fascinating, but hacking code to get something to perform as you would expect it to – from your hours and hours and hours of forum experience? To me this is on the development teams shoulders.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I may be back after I have a chance to try what you had suggested.

By the way, after installing buddypress all of the groups, member pages, activity pages, etc. were ALL operating on full width. The only part of the entire install that persists in operating between my sidebars is bbpress, and it is the only one I am dissatisfied with. So now I have to go through hours of who knows what to get something working the way it always has worked.

Again, bravo for bbpress, it’s a great project with a great future, and there is a lot to be said for it. But that doesn’t excuse it from what needs work, and for those of us who want to deliver content, we would much rather spend our time on managing the delivery of content than on managing the content management system.

I’d rather be spending this time developing the forum, not on developing the forum development software.

[PureRover]

Could not have put it any more professional than illustrated by ‘thebasket’. That is the frustration I was having with bbpress. Pushing my deadlines up against the wall until I finally had to look toward alternatives.

PLEASE ADD A SHORTCODE THAT WILL ENABLE THE PLUGIN TO WORK WITHIN A FULL-WIDTH PAGE JUST LIKE SIMPLE PRESS.

[thetbasket]

By the way, Travis, after implementing the code the way you said it rather than the way I read it it worked for what it was intended, so thank you.

This still does not solve the sidebar issue I have been having, but it does solve an issue I would have had to acknowledge afterword, so it’s a great help.

I still need to work on getting this 100% with the sidebars, and it will certainly require some alterations of the theme. Well, I may be back to ask some more questions, but thank you for clearing up how I completely misread your original post on this.

BTW, where in the bbpress code does it refer to the page template it is using to make it’s decisions? Right now with the buddypress install I cannot work with within the WP framework to use an alternate template. My theme creator – Artisteer – does not create a full page option, but I could create it. The problem is that I do not see where to point to, say, page-full.php within the bbpress code.

I’m a bit of a hack-beginner at this. As previously stated, I am a content creator more than a programmer, so perhaps it’s a stupid question. But I cannot figure it out.

Best,

James

[John James Jacoby]

Negatively criticizing the development team isn’t the way to get help with things that are specific to your opinions and forum needs. bbPress has historically never been a “full width” forum, and since most WordPress themes aren’t, why would it?

I understand that you are striving for a particular look. If you’d rather spend your time writing content, there are an infinite number of developers in the WordPress community that could probably save you time and headaches. In almost any theme under your control, it shouldn’t take more than 5 minutes to make a full width forum.