Who in god’s name is running things now? Why in god’s name can’t anyone fix the issues with bbpress.org? Why in god’s name can’t Matt ever grow up and let _ck_ or someone with a heart, soul, and brain, run the bbpress project?

Stop sucking up everybody and demand some answers! This could be the best forum software on the internet if it wasn’t chained down by laziness and politics a.k.a. selfishness and stubbornness!

[@gautamgupta Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

Regarding bbpress.org edit privileges, AGAIN… who the hell has them? another example of matt not being clear, or at least proof that whoever HAS edit privileges (maybe the few you mentioned) don’t give a rat’s arse about listening to feedback.

I think chris atleast has the power to make blog posts, but I think he shouldn’t as blog posts are taken as official announcements which should be made only by the people of the company of the project.

Also. IM SICK of people saying “look at TRAC… look at TRAC” … who the hell looks at TRAC? And who the hell actually listens to and implements what is said on TRAC (re: bbpress)? Nobody and barely anybody with power, respectively! TRAC is mostly time wasted back and forth and tickets eventually being rejected or closed by matt or others, or shoved off into the big, vague, undefined world of “backpress.”

Developers look at trac! Just look at log and see how many commits chrishajer has made in the recent weeks to fix bugs. This para is 100% insane and totally wrong!

THERE IS NO POINT to contribute to trac when matt IGNORES EVERYTHING and nothing has gotten anywhere for 2 friggin years. Why funnel feedback to the top of the chain when only one person, who doesn’t care or listen anyway, is the only person able to activate them?

You haven’t been in the community for long (as you said in one of your previous replies) or not keeping a tab on the developments, so I prefer you to keep your mouth closed.

@Gautam, what due date was set for 1.0.3 cuz I have never come across one, and I know about 20,000 users who would love to know as well.

Check it yourself (don’t be so lazy) – https://trac.bbpress.org/milestone/1.0.3

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

@Guatam, oh. LOL. I thought there was a new due date, but I guess I should have realized you were referring to the April 2010 date, which only serves to once again prove that nothing about bbpress TRAC is reliable. I love your work here, and I’m sorry to upset you with my bluntness, but even the “devs” who “check trac” are ignored by matt 90% of the time, so, just want to put that out there as gently as possible.

They say dictatorships are efficient, and maybe that’s true, but only when the dictator is awake and involved. When the dictator is on constant “out of office” status, then all you have is a bunch of peasants (?) working hard for the king (for free) who foolishly think he is paying attention to their efforts and words.

@Kevin, p.s. no offense (actually yes, offense), but please stop trolling if you have nothing new to say (especially since you are obnoxiously hypocritical). You waste *precious* thread space by trying to nitpick others’ verbiage with whiny condescending comments. Let alone, the irony of you making *worthwhile* bbpress discussions even more distracted and ineffective then they already are. I recommend you join a political forum or something so you can get that crap out of your system before you dump on bbpress.org every night.

For the record, most people don’t enjoy broadcasting their name, photo, and a list of continents they have saved onto the internet.

[@gautamgupta Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

@Guatam, oh. LOL. I thought there was a new due date, but I guess I should have realized you were referring to the April 2010 date, which only serves to once again prove that nothing about bbpress TRAC is reliable.

I just said that is was set and at that time there were no open tickets for 1.0.3 as far as I remember (and it was new then). Also, it is Gautam.

I love your work here, and I’m sorry to upset you with my bluntness, but even the “devs” who “check trac” are ignored by matt 90% of the time, so, just want to put that out there as gently as possible. They say dictatorships are efficient, and maybe that’s true, but only when the dictator is awake and involved. When the dictator is on constant “out of office” status, then all you have is a bunch of peasants (?) working hard for the king (for free) who foolishly think he is paying attention to their efforts and words.

That really doesn’t matter to me.

@Kevin, p.s. no offense (actually yes, offense), but please stop trolling if you have nothing new to say (especially since you are obnoxiously hypocritical). You waste *precious* thread space by trying to nitpick others’ verbiage with whiny condescending comments.

Atleast, what he says, is true.

[@pubdirltd Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

Kevin, you’re a great bloke and your heart is soooo in the right place, but you are being naive here. Do you think Matt got where he is, that WordPress, bbPress, BuddyPress and all the others got where they are today without him making demands on people. You are wrong about that Kevin. It is perfectly OK to make demands on people, as long as they are for the greater good. Often it helps people find out who they really are and what they can become; what they can achieve. Preferring their ‘easy’ life, folk sometimes don’t make those demands of themselves without that little shove, that imperative, that demand. But as they say “…come the day, come the man”. And they say it for a very good reason, Kevin. Clearly you must think a demand is being made of you here. Is it really that demand you are trying to deny?

[@kevinjohngallagher Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

>.<

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

@Gautam*

I just said that is was set and at that time there were no open tickets for 1.0.3 as far as I remember (and it was new then). Also, it is Gautam.

Not really following you completely, but from what it sounds like, you just keep proving that nothing in TRAC is reliable. Deadlines aren’t met, or even cared about really, tickets are ignored by those in power, (let alone shared with the public, and NO, 99% of users don’t know about TRAC)… and overall, coordination is appalling, at best.

If you choose to hold onto the wishful idea that TRAC and deadlines and work are all peachy keen and your work is worthwhile, then by all means, keep going… ignorance is bliss after all. Hell if I worked as hard as some of you guys, I would be spitting bullets about now…

So since Kevin wants me to address specifics, here are my questions, to the entire bbpress community:

1) When is 1.0.3 coming out. Seriously. What day? (when I check the “bbpress company blog” I seem to only see hacked up IRC chat logs from 5 months back… so much for “official sounding” posts, huh!)

2) Who (names?) has editing rights to bbpress.org?

3) Is bbpress definitely becoming a WP plugin?

4) If bbpress becomes a WP plugin, will it also remain standalone?

5) How will bbpress plugins be integrated into a proposed WP plugin?

6) What exactly is backpress, and what is it’s status?

7) Who (names?) is in charge of updates/commits/releases for bbpress at this moment?

How can plugin devs update their bbpress plugins and stay in touch with higher ups?

That should be enough for now. Please, no condescending answers, since we are aiming for “maturity” in this thread from here on out. This is not just for me, but the community, remember. Even if I’m an immature idiot with false hope…

[@gautamgupta Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

1) When is 1.0.3 coming out. Seriously. What day? (when I check the “bbpress company blog” I seem to only see hacked up IRC chat logs from 5 months back… so much for “official sounding” posts, huh!)

I had sent a mail to Matt a few hours back, lets wait for sometime.

2) Who (names?) has editing rights to bbpress.org?

Chris (I am not sure), matt, mdawaffe.

3) Is bbpress definitely becoming a WP plugin?

There are 90% chances for this.

4) If bbpress becomes a WP plugin, will it also remain standalone?

5) How will bbpress plugins be integrated into a proposed WP plugin?

As bbPress is not in the plugin phase, there is no roadmap for this (for the time being). Also check https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/bbpress-as-a-wordpress-plugin-thoughts

6) What exactly is backpress, and what is it’s status?

Check http://backpress.org/ There were also some developments in it about 2 weeks back.

7) Who (names?) is in charge of updates/commits/releases for bbpress at this moment?

Matt, mdawaffe, filosofo (inactive), chrishajer. Don’t know about anyone else.

How can plugin devs update their bbpress plugins and stay in touch with higher ups?

What do you mean by “higher ups”?

[@citizenkeith Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

Please stop feeding this troll (the op). I’m surprised everybody took his bait.

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

@Gautam,

Your response is appreciated. Maybe a mod can copy paste your answers into a sticky thread. Any email response from Matt yet?

So mdawaffe is the only confirmed webmaster for bbpress.org, and he doesn’t seem to pay attention to any feedback or bugs. I guess that has been confirmed at least… Chris, do you have access or not? This really ain’t the biggest concern right now, but it would help the community to know who deals with this site, as Matt does not actively. For one thing, a bunch of plugin coders have repeatedly requested access to updating their old plugin files and better access to maintaining their plugin’s “page” or information. This is whay I mean by “higher ups” – its great that 3-4 devs are having private IRC chats together and exchanging emails, but last time I checked, the point of an open source community is that everyone is communicating and sharing developments regularly and publicly. Hell, this forum itself barely has any staff or moderators to speak of. And even the forum regulars have no way to get in touch with “higher ups” even if they wanted to, so bbpress is 99% hearsay at this point. BIG PROBLEM.

Also, if bbpress is 90% becoming a WP plugin, why hasn’t this process been decided on or initiated yet? Will it be initiated after the 1.0.3 release?

Coders and designers want and need to know these answers guys. I’m only speaking up for the silent majority and dozens of unanswered threads, this is not just my personal rant.

@citizenkeith, thanks for providing another example of bored whiny bbpress trolls. If only we could get rid of users like you, we might have more progress around here.

[@gautamgupta Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

Any email response from Matt yet?

He didn’t reply to me, but you can also check here – https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/bbpress09-support-finishing-early#post-69893

For one thing, a bunch of plugin coders have repeatedly requested access to updating their old plugin files and better access to maintaining their plugin’s “page” or information.

Any plugin author can update his/her plugin. That problem didn’t arise.. where did you hear/read that from?

the point of an open source community is that everyone is communicating and sharing developments regularly and publicly

That is what Trac is about, anyone can see the developments, communicate and contribute.

Also, if bbpress is 90% becoming a WP plugin, why hasn’t this process been decided on or initiated yet? Will it be initiated after the 1.0.3 release?

In an IRC meetup, Matt said that bbPress will start becoming a WP plugin near 1.2 or so. (and that IRC meetup is also posted on the blog)

@citizenkeith, thanks for providing another example of bored whiny bbpress trolls. If only we could get rid of users like you, we might have more progress around here.

citizenkeith is a valuable member to the community and has been here for long, so please.

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

He didn’t reply to me

NO SURPRISE there huh.

0.9 … 1.0 … 1.1

How is anyone supposed to understand what is going on with all these releases. How can any reasonable and hard working member of the bbpress community still be in support of Matt?

Matt’s claims in IRC were now 6 months ago. You really believe them?

And again I say that TRAC and IRC logs are NOT true “public” records. What is the point of the bbpress forum? Just to test out the software?

AGAIN I PROPOSE:

a) bug the living hell out of Matt until we get answers … or

b) fork bbPress July 2010

Matt already hates/ignores/constantly-lies-to bbPress anyway, so its a no-loss set of options above. He has obviously reached the state of being a super rich, “content” guy who doesn’t give a crap about anything anymore, which is great and congratulations to him, but screw his rudeness and immaturity and let’s arrive at some new plans of action.

I am not attacking citizenkeith or anyone else on a personal level. I’m attacking the users that keep trying to derail this thread and/or these important issues with petty condescending whining. These issues are critical and to employ playground politics is retarded and wastes everyone’s time.

Matt: if you read this, you only have one viable option at this point buddy, which is offer a sincere apology, update the blog, guide the devs to decide on a branch and future plans with WP plugin/standalone options, and INFORM the bbpress community of your decisions…

[@_ck_ Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

b) fork bbPress July 2010

There is absolutely nothing legally or physically preventing you from forking bbPress right now or in July. You literally don’t need anyone’s permission, so go right ahead.

[@rich-pedley Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

Don’t ask what bbPress can do for you, ask what you can do for bbPress.

[@mr_pelle Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

For one thing, a bunch of plugin coders have repeatedly requested access to updating their old plugin files and better access to maintaining their plugin’s “page” or information.

Any plugin author can update his/her plugin. That problem didn’t arise.. where did you hear/read that from?

Probably he was referring to the weeks (months?) when Plugins section was not synchronized with SVN. I wrote about it here, Zaerl did here and I don’t remember if any other plugin dev did it somewhere else.

In an IRC meetup, Matt said that bbPress will start becoming a WP plugin near 1.2 or so.

That milestone does not even exist! Anyhow it means they have to release 1.1 first, which unfortunately still has a load of open tickets…

b) fork bbPress July 2010

There is absolutely nothing legally or physically preventing you from forking bbPress right now or in July. You literally don’t need anyone’s permission, so go right ahead.

If he could do that on his own, I think we would already heard about it. That kind of project definitely needs a team of more than just 1 dev!

[@zaerl Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

Beware. I’m a bit O.T. cause I will speak regarding my situation as a “plugin developer”. Keep in mind that usually I don’t write these kind of posts.

I really don’t like what’s going on in this site. I mean: everybody are fighting each other regarding the near future of this software. It must be name 1.0.3, no it’s 1.1, no it will be a plugin et cetera. It’s just a number and nobody care about numbers. If Linux jumped from 0.12 to 0.95 then we can call the new version of bbPress 1.0.3, 1.1 or what we want.

Now what is the real problem? The real problem is this site. After the releasing of the new template and the corresponding “Whoa!” thread everything stopped working. 404 pages, SVN broken, search broken, stupid HTML entities, trac substitution tag. Also the “Downloads This Week” statistics aren’t updated, “Highest Rated Plugins” too and I can continue on.

I really love this piece of code but we must provide a good experience for users now for the 1.0.2. We can’t provide the new version if there isn’t a solid base first. Few hints? Documentation or API documentation? I was forced to look at the code of the core in order to understand how to write my extensions.

I am demotivated. I have built a lot of plugins but I don’t want to hit the “submit” button cause why should I share my work if nobody can search for it in the plugin section or access it in several situations? As you can see I have stopped uploading big plugins after Editor and Visibility. Random Desc, Simple Registration, URL Preview and Post Permalink are like toys for me and I can share my toys with other people.

Have a nice day and long live bbPress.

[@mr_pelle Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

I agree with Zaerl. Documentation has been bbPress biggest lack since I knew it. There is also a 3-months-old ticket regarding PHPdoc and coding standards which has never moved on…

I deeply esteem your work, Zaerl: it’s amazing what you were able to do with no documentation at all! And the fact that you consider your latest plugins as “toys” is… wow!

Anyhow, we’d need more people with TRAC permissions to change the website (and to commit 1.0.3/1.1 patches too) and at the moment we just have a few…

I’ll be happy to contribute with my (very little) experience and my (big) free time, but we need to know who stakeholders are, first.

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

@_ck_, okay. I’ll fork if you fork. Seriously. You have the power to get 50 of us following after you, and I know at least 2 big coders who would probably follow. I’m a nobody, please remember.

@mr_pelle, EXACTLY.

@zaerl, sounds like you support a FORK too?

SCREW TRAC. SCREW IRC LOGS.

And screw trying to heal bbpress’ relationship with Matt, it will never happen guys. WAKE UP. The man-child has too much pride to apologize and fix this mess. He will let it die on purpose, or suddenly delete this whole site and turn bbpress into a plugin of WP and remove all access to the old bbpress code and repositories if we let this crap continue.

We need to mirror this entire domain’s code and plugins onto another server before its too late.

Even if we wanted to harass Matt into giving us answers, he still wouldn’t do it. Seriously if bbpress is going to survive as a forum software, we need to FORK IT NOW.

[@_ck_ Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

Hey don’t involve me. I said you can do whatever you want.

I don’t want any of that responsibility or people whining at me.

[@gautamgupta Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

Check slides 18-23 – http://www.slideshare.net/vishnu/how-to-protect-yourhow-to-protect-your-open-source-project-from-poisonous-people

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

Check # 1-13

http://ma.tt/2009/08/kill-your-community/

[@wimtibackx Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

Blaming matt/automattic or blaming eachother isn’t going to take us and this project anywhere, people!

Let’s stop bitching at eachother and get this thing moving.

To summarize :

-Matt will be making bbpress into a wordpress plugin, afaics in this quarter, as WordPress skipps a release cycle to focus on the website and other projects

-People are talking about forking bbpress 0.9 as an independant lightweight forum. Is this going to happen and who is going to do this.

-I’ll start a wordpress/backpress/bbpress fork probably at the end of next week, searching for extra devpower.

That’s the situation how it is, and there is little chance that it is going to change. Time to stop looking at the past and to start looking at the future.

[@yutt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

I don’t understand why you people “looking for a lightweight forum” don’t just use Vanilla.

*Obviously* BBpress is about working with WordPress, so those complaining about it becoming a plugin really need to get over yourselves. BBpress wasn’t made to cater whatever bizarre whim you wanted it to, it was made to provide a forum that functions with WordPress. A plugin works great for that.

If you want something else, look elsewhere and stop blaming others for making a poor decision.

[@gautamgupta Participant 14 years, 6 months ago]

*Obviously* bbPress is about working with WordPress, so those complaining about it becoming a plugin really need to get over yourselves. bbPress wasn’t made to cater whatever bizarre whim you wanted it to, it was made to provide a forum that functions with WordPress. A plugin works great for that.

You’re totally wrong. Integrating with WordPress was an after-thought. At the beginning, it was made as a standalone software.

[@wtfmatt Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

@WimTibackx,

Why are you seeking to fork WP and backpress?

If we fork bbpress and make it standalone, that would solve half the world’s problems. No point to think about backpress until the creators of backpress become more clear about their goals for it, etc… right?

[@wimtibackx Member 14 years, 6 months ago]

I might not have been very clear on that. Foremost I want to fork WordPress and turn it into a fast, modern and elegant cms. At the same time I want to fork WordPress and bbPress to run as plugins on that cms. I just used the backpress name in my post to avoid using WordPress two times.

I’m personally not that interested in a standalone forum, but in a forum that integrates on my normal website easily and a normal website that is modern, fast and easily extendible. The current WP codebase might have the fast-part but it isn’t modern and it isn’t easily extendible (ok, it’s better then phpBB for example but more object oriented code wouldn’t do bad at all).