[Erlend]

Just a thought.

[Gautam Gupta]

This had been posted as a solution by _ck_ here – https://bbpress.org/forums/topic/bbpress-plugin-is-born/page/3#post-71233

[Matt Mullenweg]

I rather like the bbPress name. The reason TalkPress was registered for a hosted service was to avoid the confusion we have between WordPress.com and WordPress.org. (Which I would not repeat if given the opportunity.)

As I spelled out in roadmap discussions before, better integration with WordPress is the single most important item for the future of bbPress.

(Trimming the rest of this to turn into a blog post.)

[_ck_]

It will take me a little while to find the original post but years ago you said you didn’t like the bbPress name.

If I can’t plead with you for a name change for a completely different forum program (it will likely share 10% or less of the original code) than at least don’t call it 1.2

1.2 has way too many implications that it’s a minor upgrade to 1.1 when in reality it’s a major overhaul (most especially if you aren’t running WordPress or WordPress 3).

All themes, plugins, hacks, advice will be invalidated.

That’s not a x.1 to x.2 update!

[Matt Mullenweg]

Here’s the link:

https://bbpress.org/blog/2010/07/wordpress-integration/

[Matt Mullenweg]

_ck_ maybe my tastes have changed? It’s not a perfect name but it does have historical significant and attachment for me. The integration will be the completion of the arc that started with my first checkin, because I felt the data structures of author-started versus user-started discussions were fundamentally different, and I could do it much faster on a DB structure just like minibb, which is what we used to use on WordPress.org and one of the first forums I really liked. (After attempting vBulletin and phpBB a number of times.)

We also have a history of major changes in 0.1 releases. We might indulge in a little bit of inflation with a 2.0.

I’ve been wondering that if addition to being part of the plugin directory for people already using WP, we could offer a pre-bundled download here on bbPress.org that could set up WP + bbP seamlessly so from a user experience point of view they’re still getting a “standalone” piece of software, just with a far more robust admin and update system. (Just a thought, we’ll figure it out when we get there.)

[Gautam Gupta]

I just had a suggestion – when the plugin would be public and this site’s posts converted, we could have an if statement above the topic like

if ( topic_date is before bla bla date || one of the topic_tags == 'bb_old' ) { /* load a message which says that this is for bb 1.1 and below, this doesn't apply to the new plugin */ }

But I’m also not against changing its name or having its version as 2.0.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Probably what we will do is have the bbPress.org plugins section pull from plugins in the core WP directory with a certain tag, like how BuddyPress does it. We could probably keep the existing bbP directory running in a different directory to give people time to transition.

[johnnydoe]

as for me and for my usage, i need a fast and lightweight solution, so no blog front- and backend needed.

imho a better idea would be probably a pure and ultralight framework (let’s call it wp-cortex ) with an option to install a blog, a forum or both via plugins.

[_ck_]

I greatly appreciate the consideration of using 2.0 instead of 1.2 which will at least slow down some confusion and make people realize the true weight of it as more than an update (and entirely different program).

I have to be honest though, I’ll probably be just going on my way once that plugin version is officially released to gold and the standalone versions become legacy.

You had a brilliant creation with 0.7, extremely lightweight and had the potential to be a pure framework and circumvent much of the legacy which shackles WP, but it’s all come full circle now and I simply cannot get behind such a radical reversion.

[Alex Luft]

You had a brilliant creation with 0.7, extremely lightweight and had the potential to be a pure framework and circumvent much of the legacy which shackles WP, but it’s all come full circle now and I simply cannot get behind such a radical reversion.

_CK_, could you go in a little more detail as to what you mean by the “shackles WP part?”

Just curious.

[citizenkeith]

I greatly appreciate the consideration of using 2.0 instead of 1.2 which will at least slow down some confusion and make people realize the true weight of it as more than an update (and entirely different program).

Even from just a marketing perspective, calling the plugin 2.0 just has more impact. You’ll get more people adopting it, more feedback, more developers. It’s a win all around, IMHO.

Matt, I just wanted to quickly say thank you for coming back to bbPress.org forums and answering questions and communicating with us. There are a lot of passionate people here. We might not all agree on the direction, but I can tell you that already your presence (and JJJ and Pete) has helped morale immensely.

[kevinjohngallagher]

Matt, I just wanted to quickly say thank you for coming back to bbPress.org forums and answering questions and communicating with us. There are a lot of passionate people here. We might not all agree on the direction, but I can tell you that already your presence (and JJJ and Pete) has helped morale immensely.

CitizenKeith always phrases things better than my celtic tongue does.

[Matt Mullenweg]

I also remember 0.7 fondly — along with Akismet it was the released product with the highest percentage of my code. Last year I shifted most of my code to internal tools, and this year that has waned even more due to the force of nature that is Mr Momrik my Technical Assistant.

That said, there is minimalist-beautiful, and minimalist-useless. Even Ferarris have stereo systems. I think we can find the balance between the two even though it might mean we misstep in one direction or the other along the way.

I agree with you more than you. In hindsight BackPress was a mistake. Its goal was to unify WP and bbP development, and it just ended up crippling bbPress with needless abstraction and didn’t actually generate any user-critical improvements, like being able to use WordPress themes.

[citizenkeith]

Will the bbPress plugin still rely on BackPress?

[Pete Mall]

No, the plugin is built directly on top of WordPress.

[Chip Bennett]

Call me crazy, but I’m excited about this change. Initially, I wasn’t – but bbPress integration into WordPress has only benefits for me.

I can’t wait to see it come to fruition – and then get to work modifying my theme(s) to accommodate bbPress-as-WP-plugin! (Hey, what are a few more template tags, functions, and hooks to learn, among friends?)

[Erlend]

I’ll just say this: All I’m seeing is many bbPress standalone users passionate about keeping bbpress.org as the home for the standalone software that they’ve come to rely on, while the only people steadfastly arguing bbpress.org should be the home of the new WordPress Forum plugin, are the core developers. While the rest of us, those who are eagerly planning to make the switch from standalone (or BuddyPress) script to plugin when the time arrives, couldn’t care less what it’s called, as long as it’s official, sleek and solid.

In other words:

“Keep the bbpress.org domain for the software it is today! Make a new one for the plugin!”

In favor: Several

Opposed: Few

Don’t care: Thousands

So there are some benefits about sticking to bbpress.org thrown about, but what have you got to lose by picking a new name? What happened to making everyone happy when you’ve got the chance?

I reckon we’re all pro innovation, right? As far as I’m concerned, I’m only typing up this rant in an attempt to foster innovation, and that’s it. Either which way this turns out I’ll still have the plugin I’ve always dreamed of. I just want it to become the best it can be.

We could probably keep the existing bbP directory running in a different directory to give people time to transition.

Not everyone’s going to ever make that transition, you know that.

In the wake of just a couple days of posting, I think it’s pretty evident that a bbPress fork, or 0.9 continuation more like it, is a pretty likely forecast. Now where could a front runner or two organically emerge to lead such a new initiative? bbPress.org. Where would such an initiative pick up the most momentum? bbPress.org. I couldn’t think of a significant third, but if I did? bbPress.org.

Does a bbPress plugin need any of this? No. A single mention on WordPress.org/.com (include the rest of the WordPress/Automattic ecosystem for good measure) and this plugin will have more buzz than any domain by itself could ever achieve anyway.

And I don’t believe a standalone bbPress fork would damage WordPress. If anything, it would only challenge its limits. bbPress will be shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Vanilla, while WordPress + Forum will be just that; +reason why you should pick WordPress to build your website. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that someone who wants just a forum will pick a plugin powered by a blog. If you want eggs you get eggs, not a full English breakfast with eggs on top.

“This just in: WordPress foundation gives bbpress.org back to the community that’s been keeping it alive” That’s what I wanna see. Openness for the friggin’ history books.

[Matt Mullenweg]

Since the stated roadmap for whatever is going to be called “bbPress” and live at bbpress.org is to build on the success of WordPress if you disagree with that direction it’s probably best to fork at that time.

[Erlend]

Alright, appreciate the response. I think we’ve exhausted this discussion then