bbPress plugin September 15?
I spotted this blogpost from WPMU.org in my RSS-feed today.
“bbPress 1.2 (the plugin) is said to be stable enough to start testing as soon as September 15 and the full release will most likely coincide with that of BuddyPress 1.3.”
Is there any chance that will happen?
Let me clarify for those that don’t follow.
BuddyPress is JJJ’s pet project.
Buddypress relies on WordPress, currently it’s technically a “plugin” to WordPress.
Buddypress (pre-1.3) uses bbpress standalone to manage it’s groups by using bbpress’s engine to manage forums (buddypress “groups” technically are forums with specific memberships to limit who can post to where).
JJJ sees that there are far too many layers and way too much code being loaded which is making buddypress too slow. So his plan is to more closely tie bbpress into WordPress, making buddypress faster.
His motivation is not to improve bbpress for the sake of making bbpress better. He doesn’t need the front end of bbpress at all for buddypress. He already manages it through buddypress.
So by reinventing bbpress to use wordpress’s core, he can cut out some of the bulk and make buddypress faster. BuddyPress is currently very slow and bulky unless you have a decent server and good caching setup.
Taking control of bbPress is a side project to help buddypress for JJJ and he’ll never convince me otherwise about his motivations.
Note I am NOT saying you won’t be able to run bbPress without buddypress, of course you will be able to (because that’s even less complicated) But that’s not his motivation or priority, at all.
0.7-0.9 bbPress standalone, high speed core independent of WP
1.0-1.1 bbPress relies on backpress core, which uses WP functions (150% larger)
1.2/2.0 bbPress relies on WordPress 3+ for it’s core (200% larger)
If you think hooking into the bulk that is WP 3.x is going to make bbPress faster, well there’s going to be a mighty big wake up call sometime soon. It will make page caching easier, but that’s good because it’s practically going to be a requirement.
JJJ’s only motivation to do this is because his pet buddypress project relies on the bulk of WP so the logic is might as well force bbPress to also.
TL;DR bbPress rewrite makes buddypress faster but bbpress by itself slower than 0.9/1.1
So bbPress is progressively getting worse and worse?
Sounds like 0.7-0.9 was what we’d all want back, no?
Yes that is why forks of bbpress would be wise to start with 0.9
For those not familiar with BuddyPress or how it uses bbPress, let me give you a quick example.
Here is a typical BuddyPress group’s discussion area (without forums it’s just a group of bloggers which also can be done with basic buddypress but it’s boring)
Here it is natively inside the bbPress engine:
If you look back on their bbpress front-page you can see how all the groups are exposed as individual forums. This is how buddypress needs bbpress.
(I have no association at all with that site, it’s just a rare example of behind the scenes – unfortunately this kind of demo is not possible on most buddypress sites because JJJ has learned over time to “lock down” bbpress to prevent direct examination)
BuddyPress doesn’t need the bbPress front-end, at all. But it desperately needs the backend. And JJJ needs that backend to be faster and not have to load it’s own core. So by switching it to use WordPress’s core, buddyPress will be faster.
ps.the buddypress version of the forum takes FIVE times longer to render than the bbpress version – I’m not talking about the time to send the extra images on the page, I’m talking just server time to render the page. And that’s against bbPress 1.0, not 0.9
And how once I had hope for bbPress, it seems like that hope dead with 0.9 some 3 years ago
_ck_, I’ll definitely make a donation, if you were to pick back up 0.9 and run with it. Fix the known bugs in 0.9 and add in native page (front page & topic) caching for non-logged in users.
I’ll donate $100. Seriously.
I’ve been side tracked with BuddyPress bugs and paying work, so don’t expect anything official for a week or two. I have a few projects coming up fast that will need this working so while I’m missing my soft Sept 15 deadline, I don’t think it will be /too/ far off.
Sorry to disappoint, it’s no fun… and thanks for your patience with me and it.
For the record, I love bbPress. I have a few commits going into 1.1, and I have every intention of making bbPress be the best it can be as a WordPress plugin.
Regarding my motivation and priority, it’s to make great forum software that fits inside WordPress; nothing more and nothing less.
Regarding why I was able to step into this role, it’s because our peers believe I am capable, and I am willing to dedicate time and effort towards it getting it done.
Regarding any possible benefit BuddyPress might see, is a welcome bonus but not a priority. BuddyPress/bbPress processing times should decrease with BuddyPress 1.2.6, as a few tweaks have been made and a bug or two have been patched in that regard. Even still, nothing compares to the blazing fast speed of bbPress by itself, even in the slower 1.x branch.
Regarding everything else, I’m just here to write the best code I can, help make bbPress a great WordPress plugin, and have fun doing it all. So far, so good on my end.
Feature request: Import from bbPress (should be coming) and Simple:Press. Thank you.
Thanks for the update John. I’ll admit I had already adjusted my expectations. Here’s the thing about transparent development and deadlines though: It’s fine to set deadlines, but when you’re getting a strong sense that you won’t make it, say so.
I would have preferred checking in yesterday or the day before that to find “bbPress pre-release deadline post-poned”. Instead I came in today with just a tiny bit of hope, but we all know how that ended.
@_ck_ The “hijacking” comment was all kinds of ‘too far’, ‘out of context’ and plain false. I have a lot of respect for you and share a lot of your opinions about the bbP project, but right now you are truly on the verge of trolling.
JJJ, I think everyone sincerely appreciates your work and dedication. I have been looking forward to the BBpress plugin, but I think it is pretty understood Sept 15 is a very soft idealistic date. Again thank you for the work you have and will put in on this.
Quick update – Aiming for October 15 for the aforementioned super-pre-alpha. Pete Mall is waiting on me to commit a few local additions that need to be fixed up before he jumps back into the fray. Glad to have him back aboard.
Thanks for the update, and at least that gives me chance to finish off other things before I start playing with it!
Thank you for stepping up and taking this on, JJJ. Thank you so much – been waiting for this for half a year!
yes, see this thread:
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