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They will if they came here for a stand alone software (or if they don’t use the latest version of WordPress).
If they’ve never used bbPress before, then they will come here not knowing it was ever standalone, and won’t have any issues installing a plugin, and turning it on.
This is the end of the line for the current implementation of bbPress.
Yes. Just like 2.9.2 was the end of the road for the 2.9 branch of WordPress when 3.0 came along. I understand the obvious differences, but at the end of the day, it’s just another day.
This entire support forum and plugin section for bbPress will have ZERO meaning for the plugin and will only serve to confuse people.
All the years of advice here for the two major versions of the standalone version will be useless for the plugin version.
It will have meaning for supporting legacy code, which happens all the time when something gets refactored in WordPress. Get it working in it’s current incarnation, then ensure backwards compatibility with existing installations that are already integrated with WordPress.
bbPress 1.0.3, and bbPress 1.1, are still being actively developed. Once those versions are available, what /more/ would you want bbPress to do on its own?
The *plan* is for everything to stay how it is, with no loss of data on bbPress.org, or anywhere else.
The bbPress extend section doesn’t include half of the things the WordPress.org section does now, in terms of compatibility checks, etc… By having bbPress as a plugin, we inherit that too.
I know that there’s broken spirits, and I don’t want it to be this way, but I can’t say anything any more clear to ease anyone’s anxiety about it.
Btw, the first commit is in. As you can all see, there’s plenty of work to do, so you’ll have nothing to worry about for a while.
My point is that 99% of people won’t know the difference.
If I choose to download and install a development version of Windows 8, I do so totally at my own risk. If I get burned by it, I can’t be mad at Microsoft.
Same rule applies to bbPress.
The development of the future plugin version does not impact what is available today. You either choose to be involved in that future, or you don’t.
Me saying (the plugin) is only in reference to conversations where it isn’t clear what we’re talking about. By the time anyone should realistically be trying out the plugin branch of code, we won’t need to use code words to talk about the differences.
One day hopefully in the not too distant future, we’ll flip this very site over to using the plugin without telling anyone, and when there is 0% difference in functionality and presentation, it will be time to start downloading it.
P.S. – I’m about 15 minutes off from committing they very primitive framework I have laid out, in case anyone wants to keep tabs.
So bbPress1.0.3 isn’t going to be released? What of 1.1?
My involvement in the 1.0.x/1.1 branches is limited, but if I had to guess (without checking) 1.0.3 will happen if there’s anything important to push out or there’s some kind of delay with 1.1, and 1.1 will happen before it’s a plugin for sure.
Who makes these decisions?
Honestly, whomever is in charge of the project sets the roadmap. If there’s no lead developer, then there’s no release schedule, because everything is just stagnant. I recently said something similar over on the BuddyPress blog regarding activity and how it only serves to perpetually foster more activity. Ultimately, I defer any major decisions about bbPress back to Matt, if anything simply because numero uno through numero un hundred are almost all his. If someone comes along and starts ripping up the trac and contributing patches and just overall making bbPress (the plugin) awesome, and for whatever reason I’m unable to continue to fulfill my responsibility, I’ll kindly step down and let someone else grab the reigns.
Leadership on an open source project is weird to be honest. The real world doesn’t usually work this way, but I think it’d be better off if it did sometimes. I like to refer to the Ubuntu leadership code of conduct because I think it makes a lot of sense, even if not everything directly relates. Also, leadership isn’t normally even an issue until it feels like there is no leader. If the leader is a total jerk, then chances are the platform would just die because people didn’t like that person. If there’s no leader at all, well… then you just feel abandoned and weird about it, like you should try to help, but don’t know who to ask or what to do. It’s like getting broken up with out of the blue… You’re unprepared and it sucks and you’re sad and bleh… No good.
1) None of us are worried about the name from a personal view point, it could all could be renamed Bob’s Super Duper Forum for all we care ;-] , only form the perspective of not confusing users.
Then bbPress it is.
2) How are we going to differentiate this to the current “bbPress Plugin” (we already get quite a few support requests for it)?
The goal is that no one will have to. If people want bbPress today, they download the current stable version same as always. When the plugin becomes available, it’s up to us to make a great UX that helps existing bbPress users through the update, and makes sure new users aren’t smacked with tons of legacy overhead. BuddyPress was able to get bbPress installed with a 1 click install; our goal should be the same.
3) How are we going to differentiate this from a “bbPress Plugin” that actually plugs in to bbPress?
A plugin is a plugin, but there is no such thing as a “plugin dependency” like there is for enqueuing CSS and JS in WordPress. The way we tackled that problem in BuddyPress is similar to what I’d like to do with bbPress, but obviously much lighter and built in from the start.
4) Are we confident this is crystal clear to those who aren’t native Engligh speakers?
Since I only speak English, I can’t answer this confidently. I’d like to hope we do a good enough job preparing everyone for this going forward, that anyone that cares enough to contribute does so and stays on top of things.
I’m not looking to back you into a corner with this bro, but an update on the terminology we should “try” and use so we don’t confuse our already dwingling audience would be real helpful at some stage in the future.
No worries There will be better communication all around going forward to help ease peoples minds.
I think alot of us can see and understand this. What would be great though, again at some stage, is if we were allowed some visability on what those advantages and disadvantages were (at a high level).
None of us were involved in nor had any visability of the decision, or conversation even, about bbPress becoming a plugin; so it’s a tad of a shell shock as to how this has come about. You’re a few steps ahead of us because of that, so any resistance you’re feeling isn’t actually against the project or yourself/Pete
bbPress, is always bbPress, and it’s up to the project leaders/managers/grand facilitators to be the guiding light. If that’s Matt, or Automattic, or whomever doesn’t really matter. Again, if it’s a matter of authority, then to me Matt is the authority. But, again, if someone starts ripping through code and contributing tons of patches, there’s plenty of room for advancement if you’re willing to put forth the effort into the core project.
It would be really great to see the requirement gathering, and weighing up of pros/cons etc. Especially after Jane’s famous http://wordpress.org/news/2009/12/setting-scope/ post about how more standard/practical/tangable/visable methodology would be used for these decisions.
That would really help us in terms of seeing where things are going; and help us get behind you and Pete on this project
Can’t speak for Jane, and not sure how famous the blog post is, but this is the beginning of that for bbPress. bbPress just has less eyes on it, so it suffers the same way BuddyPress does; passionate userbase, very little action taking place. bbPress development will start gaining speed in the coming days and weeks, and all of those blanks will start getting slowly filled in. If you or anyone else wants to start talking about how to fill those blanks in, start up dedicated topics in the forums so we can sticky them and go over it all.
You’ve a lot of goodwill from those of us who’ve seen your work and great attitude in these last 2 years mate. Sadly, there’s not alot left in the tank of most folks in regards to bbPress itself after Matt’s “We’ve done this before.” and then bolting for the door.
This is only compunded by Jane announcing that bbpress would no longer be used for the WordPress forums before telling anyone involved. Not quite as bad as Matt telling people in his KeyNote speech that the community was “rough” and to use “differnt software instead of bbpress”, but not helpful either.
bbPress will still power the forums, just not as a standalone piece of software anymore once this is ready.
The trust is gone. But you’re definately the man to regain it
Cheers mate, much appreciated
As an aside, bbPress has always been the forum software for enthusiasts. It’s edgy, and sleek, and when you tell people what software is powering your forums and say “bbPress” you just kind of feel like a bad ass. I think that’s part of where the apprehension to adapt to it being a plugin comes from, because plugins by their general nature aren’t usually trusted to do what they should, the way they should. Also, because bbPress is such a niche project, we’re all used to living on the latest SVN revision, salivating at the prospect of waking up the next day and seeing all the neat new little things that changed since the night before.
The reality is that most normal people don’t do that, and that’s the person we need to cater to first and foremost.
bbPress (the plugin) should be considered toxic and unstable until we say go. Not unlike WordPressMU, it was forked out of WordPress, honed, and then merged back in. bbPress (the plugin) is a separate branch of code that does not intersect the existing code in anyway. Once it’s fully refactored and stable, we incorporate all the legacy bits that we need back in with a conditional to not require it if you’re not upgrading, and Bob’s your uncle.
At least, that’s the plan.
All understandable points. BuddyPress has recently gone through something similar since Andy has been concentrating on rolling out awesome new stuff for WordPress.com and I’ve been busy with client work. Both of us were at points where we weren’t concentrating directly on pushing the project forward, and that took us away from the usual support/communication role and more towards heavy development and project management.
Community and communication are both important, and we’ve admittedly been lacking on both platforms leaving things feel like they’re in a little bit of a limbo state. For people already using either project, it doesn’t help you sleep at night; and it doesn’t exactly make for a happy welcome to newcomers either. It wasn’t intentional, but I think the worst is behind us now and we can concentrate on building some forward momentum.
For bbPress specifically, there is a little more history involved. It it touches so many individual pieces of the .org structure that have always been intricately balanced to work together; namely the individual plugin and theme repositories. They rely heavily on the svelteness of bbPress to function the way they do.
When the idea of making bbPress a plugin was first seriously considered (over a year ago?) I think I felt the same way as some of you do now. I felt bbPress needed to stand tall and be it’s own person and go out and make something of itself like a good young adult should. My involvement in BuddyPress and my experience with WordPress over the past few years has enlightened me to how simple of a plugin bbPress can really be, particularly now that BuddyPress can offer all of the other bits and pieces that someone might normally want or expect from forum software.
With that said, bbPress is going to be a plugin for WordPress going forward. The name is staying the same, as much as I know that pains some of you to hear. There are lots of reasons to keep it the way it is because we all love it and appreciate it, but there is more to gain by it being a plugin with where WordPress is today. (…no dagger to the heart intended…)
I think the most important thing that will come from an ‘official’ announcement (that I’ll include here briefly now) is that the top priority for this next chapter in bbPress is migrating/importing/exporting be 100% no-more-than-5-clicks simple to do. As a plugin author myself, the close second priority is having a clear resource for converting plugins.
I typically try to under promise and over deliver, so I’m approaching bbPress the same way. Am I super genius that knows the insides and outsides of bbPress and BackPress 100% and can recite lines of code like song lyrics or poetry? Nope. But I do know plugins, and extending WordPress safely and effectively, and refactoring, and bulletin board software, and how communicating with and through software works for both machines and people.
Most importantly, I know I really want bbPress to stay kickass.
I’ll be posting something all official sounding soon (as in tonight) but Kevin, can’t say I received an email from you; if I did it only went ignored because I didn’t see it. My apologies for lack of communication and I’ll do better going forward. Check my Gravatar for ten confirmed methods to track me down.
On the flip side, I’m excited that people still care about there being a plugin branch considering the ups and downs bbPress has gone through over the past year or two.
At the sake of sounding like a politician, I’m personally committed to making bbPress great in whatever form it takes, because it (along with WordPress and BuddyPress) put food on my table and keep a roof over my head. It’s been like that for the past two years, and I’d like to maintain that status for as far into the foreseeable future as I can. If I was self-employed or employed by Automattic, it wouldn’t change the way I intend to be involved and help shape bbPress’s future.
I know it’s been a rough and tumble life for bbPress, and thankfully all of us want to change that.
Be back in a bit to keep up this convo and look forward to more comments, feedback, gripes, general criticism, and cooking tips if you have any.
Without too much detail, I’ve been neck deep in theme development, bug patching, code re-factoring and clean-up since the Windows 3.11 and Visual Basic 3.0 days. I’ve been interested in making bbPress be better integrated with WordPress for probably a year or so now? I was a long time phpBB2.0 junkie, and moved to WordPress because I was frustrated at how forcibly linear typical forum software is. When I fell in love with the WordPress way, I quickly found bbPress, and expected it to include all of the features that BuddyPress now does, hence my shift in that direction.
I’d like to help restyle bbpress.org, maybe bring it a little more in line with the other Automattic websites. There’s no doubt that bbPress needs some TLC in the codex and source-code documentation areas too, and I have recent experience absorbing the WP Code Standards from working under Andy with BuddyPress.
Right now my focus is 100% BuddyPress, but since you asked… I’d love to be more involved in all of the WP projects and communities if there’s opportunity.
felabria, keep in mind that at WordPress.org, they do not have cookie sharing setup; so logging into the forums does not mean you’re logged into the codex, etc…
You’re very welcome. I should be thanking you for keeping bbpress.org on the up and up. I’m happy to help on the this side of things too and I’ll pop in from time to time to check in on BuddyPress integration questions, etc…
I’m happy to retheme bbpress.org if I can get my hands on the designs again.
The all rosy instructions come from me attempting to side-step the 404 errors produced from the old school deep integration method, which you won’t need in BuddyPress if you use the built in group forums setup.
I got your PM on bp.org Mitch. Care to share with everyone how you solved your problem?
Not to bring this back from the dead, but if you’re still interested for the time being…
Love it. Similar but different. I also love the icons, as it is “bee bee Press” after all. Plus, if we’re going to over think this, Bee’s and hives represent a colony, and forums are basically the same thing; a colony of users.
Or, maybe you guys just love sweet, sweet honey… Just a bunch of Pooh Bear’s surrounded by empty glass jars hoping Matt will send another shipment this month to keep you motivated.
DennisH, it sounds to me like you want BuddyPress + bbPress + WordPress. If you’re not using all three, then you’re really not going to get what you want.
Also, if phpBB just has too MANY features, you could trim some of phpBB’s code out, no different than you can add code to any *Press product.
It also is a relatively new concept (Within 1 year) of having all of these platforms working in unison together. BuddyPress has taken giant strides towards providing a personality to the users on your site, to give your bbPress users profiles and information beyond the basics.
Regarding the “promise” of integration, it’s possible to do within a few minutes, with integrated logins, profile info, etc… The major difference is that you can’t expect it to look like a typical forum is going to look, at least not at its current stage of development.
When you consider that phpBB is 3.0.5, and it stayed in the 2.0 branch for over 7 years, apply that logic to bbPress that JUST turned 1.0 a month ago… There’s still LOTS that can be done, but for now bbPress is a stable and powerful product that is a developers dream platform for forum software to start with. You can mold and shape it to handle just about any task (wait until you see what BuddyPress is going to do with it )
Long story short, I’m sorry you’re disappointed at the moment, but I’m willing to bet you won’t always be. If you need something besides bbPress right now, no one’s feelings are hurt, but my suggestion to you would be to make friendly with it now so you can be better prepared to use it later, when it better meets your expectations.
So I was able to take hybrid bits and pieces of what you posted above, and the .htaccess for 1.0.1, and get the forums working, but still no .css and no .js, and no access to the admin panel or any directory either. Seems if I navigate to the physical URL domain.com/forums/bb-admin/ I can get in, but forums.domain.com/bb-admin/ gives an internal server error and a 500.
Thought I had it going and it was time to celebrate, but maybe not…
The .htaccess method worked awesomely on the install, but dies for me on the forum itself. Can’t get to anything but the index.php. No styles load, and I can’t access things like the CSS files directly either.
Suggestions? I tried removing the rewriting rules all together because I haven’t setup my permalinks yet, and still nothing there either.
Just finally got around to doing this. The .htaccess method worked awesomely.
To clarify for anyone else reading this, you’ll want to put the above .htaccess code in your WordPress .htaccess file, because that’s where the bbPress requests will still be hitting. You can remove the .htaccess file in your bbPress directory using this method.
Won’t work. What would end up happening is your user tables would be out of alignment.
What do you do when that user WANTS to register at your WordPress site then? Just curious…
Best thing to do, is create a plugin on the bbPress side of things to add a usermeta value for that user that you can check on the WordPress side of things, and disallow access based on that usermeta value existing.
Unless I misread this, all of your salt values are wrong. You shouldn’t need to generate your own hashes or salts, as these should be created in WordPress for you once you setup your keys.
Out with the old, in with the new.
If it wasn’t against the grain to open up a .9 legacy forum here specifically for supporting it, I’d say just do that and see who falls into it.
A majority of the audience of bbPress are people that want to be on the bleeding edge of WordPress development, and be part of a growing and maturing community. As such, people will remember .9 of bbPress as much as they remember .9 of WordPress (b2evo anyone?)
I personally think anything officially past the end of 2009 is a stretch, and is a very generous offer from Sam to not leave the early adopters on their own without patches and support.
This is great info. Awesome work.
With a name like grassrootspa, I figured this would make more sense.
I for one hope the core of bbPress never includes that kind of thing, as it works perfectly well as it is without needing to turn a thousand features off.
There are plugins available, and if they don’t suit your needs, newer betters ones will come in the future.
I think what you want, is BuddyPress + bbPress.
If it doesn’t exist, go ahead and make one. WordPress and bbPress are designed to look for that file regardless.
ITguy, are you using deep integration? If so, I think there’s something else that needs to be done before the group forum creation will work.
I ran into the same issue as you a few months back. Burt’s XMLRPC check would work, but forums wouldn’t get made. If memory serves me right, the XMLRPC was reincluding something that was mucking up the forum creation, but I don’t recall exactly what that is at the moment, but I banged my head against it for a week, and there’s a topic somewhere in the BuddyPress forums to prove it.
I’m packing for a week long vacation tonight, and am flying all day tomorrow. I’ll have my laptop and access to all my code by Wednesday night, and will be back to help support this again. In the meantime I invite you to scour buddypress.org/forums and see if you can find any of my past replies or recent topics. Check from about April or so. Getting this figured out is important to me too, as I’ve got a series of Integration screen casts I’m going to put together and give to the *Press sites to help answer all of the questions everyone has about integration, since it is a very popular topic and many of us spend many hours developing and supporting it.
Talk soon, and good luck until then.