Comments on: My Bad http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/ Just another WordPress weblog Sun, 05 Feb 2012 20:28:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Dantel http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22954 Dantel Sat, 11 Dec 2010 20:43:01 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22954 Regarding a WYSIWIG editor, I added very stripped down TinyMCE to a bbPress install I run on a site that has a very non-technical audience. It only has minimal buttons for basic features. The users absolutely loved it and are so happy they can do things they didn’t understand before. Even the plugins that gave buttons for inserting HTML or bbcode were too confusing because they inserted code into the text that didn’t mean anything to the audience. They just want to be able to visually make something bold, italic, or add a link. So adding Oembed support would not meet the need in that kind of scenario. Regarding a WYSIWIG editor, I added very stripped down TinyMCE to a bbPress install I run on a site that has a very non-technical audience. It only has minimal buttons for basic features. The users absolutely loved it and are so happy they can do things they didn’t understand before. Even the plugins that gave buttons for inserting HTML or bbcode were too confusing because they inserted code into the text that didn’t mean anything to the audience. They just want to be able to visually make something bold, italic, or add a link. So adding Oembed support would not meet the need in that kind of scenario.

]]> By: Akvaryum http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22953 Akvaryum Sat, 11 Dec 2010 20:42:26 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22953 WordPress strongly suggests that the best way to stay secure is to always have the latest version of WP installed, but when that doesn’t correlate with BBpress, we’re then left a choice we don’t want to make. Given that in the past 2 years we’ve had 5 versions of BBpress and 5 versions of WordPress, and only 2 combinations out of the 25 have integrated at any given time (though there was a hack to make 1 more combination work for a few months), WordPress integration has, whether rightly or wrongly, come to be seen a yardstick to gauge many things by. WordPress strongly suggests that the best way to stay secure is to always have the latest version of WP installed, but when that doesn’t correlate with BBpress, we’re then left a choice we don’t want to make. Given that in the past 2 years we’ve had 5 versions of BBpress and 5 versions of WordPress, and only 2 combinations out of the 25 have integrated at any given time (though there was a hack to make 1 more combination work for a few months), WordPress integration has, whether rightly or wrongly, come to be seen a yardstick to gauge many things by.

]]> By: Giyim modası http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22949 Giyim modası Sat, 11 Dec 2010 20:22:22 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22949 I think an editor WYSIWYG editor is not very useful. Webmasters away from being original. I think an editor WYSIWYG editor is not very useful. Webmasters away from being original.

]]> By: ahmetkirik http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22920 ahmetkirik Fri, 10 Dec 2010 15:51:32 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22920 Any chance you might offer the stripped down TinyMCE as a bbpress plugin? I tried using another TinyMCE plugin someone else made but there was no hyperlink button built in. Any chance you might offer the stripped down TinyMCE as a bbpress plugin?

I tried using another TinyMCE plugin someone else made but there was no hyperlink button built in.

]]> By: Chris http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22419 Chris Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:51:02 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22419 @ Doug Smith: Any chance you might offer the stripped down TinyMCE as a bbpress plugin? I tried using another TinyMCE plugin someone else made but there was no hyperlink button built in. @ Doug Smith:

Any chance you might offer the stripped down TinyMCE as a bbpress plugin?

I tried using another TinyMCE plugin someone else made but there was no hyperlink button built in.

]]> By: Tony http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22410 Tony Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:39:35 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22410 I'm really in favor of email notification that works - I've had no luck with the plugins. Anything to make the bb more sticky for my users. I’m really in favor of email notification that works – I’ve had no luck with the plugins. Anything to make the bb more sticky for my users.

]]> By: Doug Smith http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22407 Doug Smith Mon, 21 Dec 2009 03:22:59 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22407 Like so many others, I voted for more integration with WordPress. It would be a huge advantage to have things like shared search, the ability to display posts from either WordPress or bbPress on each other's pages, common widgets, and logins always working across the two. Regarding a WYSIWIG editor, I added very stripped down TinyMCE to a bbPress install I run on a site that has a very non-technical audience. It only has minimal buttons for basic features. The users absolutely loved it and are so happy they can do things they didn't understand before. Even the plugins that gave buttons for inserting HTML or bbcode were too confusing because they inserted code into the text that didn't mean anything to the audience. They just want to be able to visually make something bold, italic, or add a link. So adding Oembed support would not meet the need in that kind of scenario. Like so many others, I voted for more integration with WordPress. It would be a huge advantage to have things like shared search, the ability to display posts from either WordPress or bbPress on each other’s pages, common widgets, and logins always working across the two.

Regarding a WYSIWIG editor, I added very stripped down TinyMCE to a bbPress install I run on a site that has a very non-technical audience. It only has minimal buttons for basic features. The users absolutely loved it and are so happy they can do things they didn’t understand before. Even the plugins that gave buttons for inserting HTML or bbcode were too confusing because they inserted code into the text that didn’t mean anything to the audience. They just want to be able to visually make something bold, italic, or add a link. So adding Oembed support would not meet the need in that kind of scenario.

]]> By: Matt http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22406 Matt Mon, 21 Dec 2009 02:58:25 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22406 Steve, no need to be dogmatic, we're in a brainstorming stage so all ideas are worth entertaining. We want to make bbPress accessible to people who can't build their own WYSIWYG, like me. :) We're going to beef up core functionality to not be so reliant on plugins, and that's not a bad thing. Steve, no need to be dogmatic, we’re in a brainstorming stage so all ideas are worth entertaining. We want to make bbPress accessible to people who can’t build their own WYSIWYG, like me. :) We’re going to beef up core functionality to not be so reliant on plugins, and that’s not a bad thing.

]]> By: Chris http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22405 Chris Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:51:30 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22405 @ Steve Bank: "There’s already 2 working WYSIWYG plugins for BBpress" I currently have BBcode Buttons installed (http://bbpress.org/plugins/topic/bbcode-buttons/). Tried Tiny MCE (3.2.5) (http://bbpress.org/plugins/topic/tinymce/#post-4021) but there is no way to hyperlink things. Are these the 2 you mean? Is there another program I'm missing? (I'm not a developer, just a newbie who taught himself how to muddle though WordPress and bbPress...am skeptical about my plugin development skills) LOL, I certainly understand that bbPress is minimalist and not claiming to have everything but the kitchen sink. "Less (code) is more" "Simplicity is a feature". But with vBulletin's updated licensing costs there is going to be an opening for bbPress to be a vBulletin killer a la what WordPress did to MovableType in 2004. Just saying if bbPress got a little more feature-rich it would go a long way toward positioning itself as that alternative ;) @ Steve Bank:

“There’s already 2 working WYSIWYG plugins for BBpress”

I currently have BBcode Buttons installed (http://bbpress.org/plugins/topic/bbcode-buttons/).

Tried Tiny MCE (3.2.5) (http://bbpress.org/plugins/topic/tinymce/#post-4021) but there is no way to hyperlink things.

Are these the 2 you mean? Is there another program I’m missing? (I’m not a developer, just a newbie who taught himself how to muddle though WordPress and bbPress…am skeptical about my plugin development skills)

LOL, I certainly understand that bbPress is minimalist and not claiming to have everything but the kitchen sink. “Less (code) is more” “Simplicity is a feature”. But with vBulletin’s updated licensing costs there is going to be an opening for bbPress to be a vBulletin killer a la what WordPress did to MovableType in 2004. Just saying if bbPress got a little more feature-rich it would go a long way toward positioning itself as that alternative ;)

]]> By: Steve Bank http://bbpress.org/blog/2009/12/my-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-22404 Steve Bank Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:39:11 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?p=300#comment-22404 Chris (GrassRootsPA), You've answered your own question buddy. "The thing I do not like about bbPress is how reliant everyone/everything is on 3rd party plugins to do basic bulletin board stuff. This is a blessing for those of you who are minimalists but it is a curse for those who want bbPress to be a vBulletin killer." This project never claims to be a vBulletin or phpBB killer. It does claim to be minamilist. Look at http://bbpress.org/about/ . <blockquote> # Less (code) is more # Simplicity is a feature </blockquote> # I dream of bbPress being more like feature-rich WordPress where more basic features are added to the Core and more plugins developed to flesh out those features even further." <blockquote> # Simplicity is a feature </blockquote> See mate, you're projecting your desires onto a product that in no way is going in the same dierction (and never has been). You want all these things that aren't what BBpress is all about. Heck WordPress is actually a very bare product at the front end (for the user), so i've no idea why you think BBpress is going ot go the other way, especially when it says and has always said it wont (cunningly hidden on the About and Feature pages to avoid confusion). "I really don’t get the hangup re: an OPTIONAL (you can turn it on or off) WYSIWYG editor. It won’t break in future bbPress updates because its in the Core and if you don’t like it, simply turn if off. Blam, everyone is happy." Mostly because you already have that feature via a plugin. You can download it and turn it on :) Ther's loads of reasons for this: Its JavaScript reliant, usually on the latest version of a library that is outwith BBpress's control. The WYSIWYG editors are quite intesive for older machines and browsers - remember most of the world still uses dial up and IE; and if you remove North America from the statistics the percentage of 5-6 year old versions of Windows and usage of IE6 sky rockets. Why would we all get behind a feature will just cause problems throughout the world. These things display differntly in every browser, and require a bucketload of testing all on their own. TinyMCE for example, has a testing/development team thats twice the size of BBpress. We only have a limited amount of development time, why should something like a WYSIWYG edtor be developed by the BBpress team into the core when any idiot can add 3 lines of javascript code to their theme if they really want it? Why should the BBpress team take the responsability and time to bugfix that? Why should users who came to this project based on the Philosophy in the About page have to turn off features that go against this philosophy simply because some people think they're cool. There's already 2 working WYSIWYG plugins for BBpress. Neither of them are that popular based on downloads, less than 5 of the Top100 websites on CK's list used them, so why should they be included in the core of plugins that are popular? I build my custom WYSIWYG plugin in about 4 hours. Bug fixing took a few hours over the next weeks. If you really want it, you can use TinyMCE (3 lines of JS on your theme), one of the 2 existing plugins, or build your own like i did. BBpress is build on certain principles mate, with a very limited development time (currently at 0hours from July 15th-Dec15th). Browser dependant interactive options for the user that administrators have to turn off just is nott part of the remit matey - especially when you have plugins that can do it already (and they aren't popular). Chris (GrassRootsPA),

You’ve answered your own question buddy.

“The thing I do not like about bbPress is how reliant everyone/everything is on 3rd party plugins to do basic bulletin board stuff. This is a blessing for those of you who are minimalists but it is a curse for those who want bbPress to be a vBulletin killer.”

This project never claims to be a vBulletin or phpBB killer. It does claim to be minamilist. Look at http://bbpress.org/about/ .

# Less (code) is more
# Simplicity is a feature

# I dream of bbPress being more like feature-rich WordPress where more basic features are added to the Core and more plugins developed to flesh out those features even further.”

# Simplicity is a feature

See mate, you’re projecting your desires onto a product that in no way is going in the same dierction (and never has been). You want all these things that aren’t what BBpress is all about. Heck WordPress is actually a very bare product at the front end (for the user), so i’ve no idea why you think BBpress is going ot go the other way, especially when it says and has always said it wont (cunningly hidden on the About and Feature pages to avoid confusion).

“I really don’t get the hangup re: an OPTIONAL (you can turn it on or off) WYSIWYG editor. It won’t break in future bbPress updates because its in the Core and if you don’t like it, simply turn if off. Blam, everyone is happy.”

Mostly because you already have that feature via a plugin. You can download it and turn it on :)

Ther’s loads of reasons for this:

Its JavaScript reliant, usually on the latest version of a library that is outwith BBpress’s control.
The WYSIWYG editors are quite intesive for older machines and browsers – remember most of the world still uses dial up and IE; and if you remove North America from the statistics the percentage of 5-6 year old versions of Windows and usage of IE6 sky rockets. Why would we all get behind a feature will just cause problems throughout the world.
These things display differntly in every browser, and require a bucketload of testing all on their own. TinyMCE for example, has a testing/development team thats twice the size of BBpress.
We only have a limited amount of development time, why should something like a WYSIWYG edtor be developed by the BBpress team into the core when any idiot can add 3 lines of javascript code to their theme if they really want it? Why should the BBpress team take the responsability and time to bugfix that?
Why should users who came to this project based on the Philosophy in the About page have to turn off features that go against this philosophy simply because some people think they’re cool.
There’s already 2 working WYSIWYG plugins for BBpress. Neither of them are that popular based on downloads, less than 5 of the Top100 websites on CK’s list used them, so why should they be included in the core of plugins that are popular?
I build my custom WYSIWYG plugin in about 4 hours. Bug fixing took a few hours over the next weeks. If you really want it, you can use TinyMCE (3 lines of JS on your theme), one of the 2 existing plugins, or build your own like i did.

BBpress is build on certain principles mate, with a very limited development time (currently at 0hours from July 15th-Dec15th). Browser dependant interactive options for the user that administrators have to turn off just is nott part of the remit matey – especially when you have plugins that can do it already (and they aren’t popular).

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